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Includes discussion of web cams and digital video imaging
SATURN and a DSLR image
Last post 03-24-2008 08:13 PM by darticus. 14 replies.
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  • 03-24-2008 09:51 AM

    SATURN and a DSLR image

    Can a DSLR take a good image of Saturn? Newbie and want to know if a Celestron C8 and the Nikon D100 will give a good Image or will it be tooo small. What is the magnification of the TeleTube as the camera doesn't have a lens. Any examples out there?

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 11:28 AM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    That depends on how you define good. At most locations, under the prevailing atmospheric conditions (especially seeing, or turbulence), the few frames that you'll get with the DSLR will not allow for a processed photo that experienced planetary imagers would consider to be good. Essentally all planetary, lunar, and solar photographers use high frame rate ccd cameras, sometimes referred to as webcams (some of these webcams cost $1-2K, while others are low cost plastic packaged Phillips webcams)

    If you live in an area which experiences periods of good laminar air flow, an island, the tip of a peninsula, or a mountaintop very near the ocean, and you select a night of exceptionally good seeing, you may only need one, well exposed frame to make a good image. In this case, use your DSLR.

    If you go to the website directed by the link provided below, you'll see that I use the old D100 (and D1x) for wildlife and nature photography. I've also spent several hours trying to use it/them for astro work. I keep coming away shaking my head at the failure, continually going back to my purpose built astro cams.

    Robert

    www.galacticphotography.com

  • 03-24-2008 02:35 PM In reply to

    • tkerr
    • Joined on 01-02-2004
    • Coastal North Carolina USA.
    • Posts 8,403

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    darticus:

    Can a DSLR take a good image of Saturn? Newbie and want to know if a Celestron C8 and the Nikon D100 will give a good Image or will it be tooo small. What is the magnification of the TeleTube as the camera doesn't have a lens. Any examples out there?

    If you're talkinf about prime focus then you would need a large enough aperture to allow you the resolution you would want, and enough focal length to give you enough magnification. Otherwise with a DSLR, especially at prime focus the planet would turn out too small. I suppose you could try Afocal and get a nice shot or two. But then you would have to be carefull of vignetting, which isn't too hard as long as you have it lined up over the eyepiece good enough.
    If you really want to get into planetary imaging more seriously, one of the lesser expensive methods is with a web cam. One which is growing in popularity is the Philips ToUcam Pro's. The SPC900NC can be got for a relatively low price at Wall Mart or Sams Club. Then you would need the adapter to adapt it to the telescope which is around another $20.00.. Some of the better images of the planets have been taken with those web cams, and they are cheaper than a purpose built CCD camera.

     

    Have A Nice __________

    Signature
    Tim Kerr
    Healthy mind - healthy body - healthy earth.
    Ad astra
    Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

    Jacksonville, NC.

    Equipment:
    Orion XT10 Classic, Celestron C6 R-GT w/updated CG5 GT mount, C80ED
    Canon 350D, Phillips SPC900NC
  • 03-24-2008 02:51 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    It depends primarily on the size of the pixels in the DSLR chip, and the focal length of the telescope. As Tim said, you need lots of focal length to get a large image of the planet on the chip.

    Here is my best image of Saturn to date, made using a ToUCam Pro 840K webcam and a 1,200mm 6-inch apochromat. The seeing this night was excellent.

    I think many amatuers can afford equipment like this, and a 10" newtonian could probably produce a better image with the same camera, assuming it was collimated well and the seeing was good.

    Compare that to the image below, which I made in 2006 using the Otto Struve 82" Cassegrain at McDonald Observatory, along with my Pentax istDS DSLR.

    If I'd had more time I could have used a computer to get more precise focus, but I was observing with a group of 17 other amateurs and time at the scope was at a premium. This is about 50 frames, registered and stacked. It is also cropped to about 1/3rd of the available pixels (even a scope with more than 20 times the focal length of my refractor can't fill the camera chip with Saturn). Rental time on this scope is $2,000 per night and it is only available about once or twice a month. Maybe if I win the lottery I can go back with my computer and DSLR and a handful of PowerMates to up the ante a bit ...

     

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    Visit my Flickr! astrophoto album at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chipdatajeffb/ and our Three Rivers Foundation for the Arts & Sciences website: www.3rf.org.
  • 03-24-2008 02:57 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    Would you know who carries that camera and how does it attach to the tele. If it uses an adapter where could I get it. Very good information.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 03:10 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    The webcams are often sold new on Astromart (www.astromart.com) by a sponsor who buys them and pairs them with a 1.25" focuser adapter nosepiece. You can also buy the adapters separately online from Stephen Mogg (who invented them). Google his name and "webcam adapter" to find his online store. They're about $20 to $30 US.

    Wal-Mart carries the SPC900NC which replaced the ToUCam and it is often as little as $69 on sale. I think the standard price is $79. You can buy these from Wal-Mart online. I like the 900NC better than the 840K, but the seeing is of primary importance -- even the most sensitive camera won't get you there if the seeing is not good.

    If you meant the DSLR, the adapter you want is called a T-adapter and they're available to fit many makes of DSLR. Visit ScopeStuff to find the one for your camera. I got the camera from an online store at Amazon and it was about $380 for the body only (new) two years ago. They continue to hold their street price well, although this model has been superseded by several newer ones released by Pentax and Samsung.

    If you are looking for a DSLR to use for astrophotography, I'd recommend the Canon EOS300D or similar models from Canon. They are superior to the Pentax and, in my opinion, are better than the Nikons for astrophotography.

    Signature
    Visit my Flickr! astrophoto album at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chipdatajeffb/ and our Three Rivers Foundation for the Arts & Sciences website: www.3rf.org.
  • 03-24-2008 03:29 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    I was trying to use my Nikon D100 but it looks like all these web cams are doing a great job. I have the adapter for the Nikon D100 but I'm having trouble getting a good photo with it. I'm new so maybe I have to get use to using it.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 04:55 PM In reply to

    • tkerr
    • Joined on 01-02-2004
    • Coastal North Carolina USA.
    • Posts 8,403

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

     The following link is to a post I put together for an introduction to astrophotography. It explains the different methods of astrophotography and also shows some of the equipment and adapters to include the Mogg adapter for webcams.

    http://cs.astronomy.com/asycs/forums/t/19319.aspx

     

    As for finding the adapter you will here the name Mogg adapter
    http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/adapter.htm

    Mogg is only one kind that will work. Which is fine if you don't mind ordering it from overseas..
    I got mine from a different source here in the U.S., but it looks the same, is made the same and works the same. I paid $21.00 through a place called Agena. But I see now they are a little more. 
    http://www.agenaastro.com/Agena-1-25-inch-Webcam-Adapter-p/paar-ag-wcp.htm

     

    Have A Nice _________

    Signature
    Tim Kerr
    Healthy mind - healthy body - healthy earth.
    Ad astra
    Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

    Jacksonville, NC.

    Equipment:
    Orion XT10 Classic, Celestron C6 R-GT w/updated CG5 GT mount, C80ED
    Canon 350D, Phillips SPC900NC
  • 03-24-2008 05:23 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    Thanks

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 05:25 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    Thanks for the great info. I reading it over and learning.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 06:01 PM In reply to

    • tkerr
    • Joined on 01-02-2004
    • Coastal North Carolina USA.
    • Posts 8,403

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    There should be a line of icons at the bottom of each post. You should have one that says Delete.  If there are no replies to that post yet you should be able to delete it. It will ask you to write a little message way you are deleting it, the ask are you sure Yes or No.. Click Yes and it should delete it. That little message you type will be sent to you in your email notifying you that your message was deleted. All you need to put is N/A. But if someone like a moderator deletes it we will place an explanation as to why it was deleted...

    If you have already clicked the Reply icon on that message and there are other post after yours, (children) you will not be able to delete it, you can't leave orphaned posts.  It will take a moderator or administrator to do it for you then..  

     

    Have A Nice __________

    Signature
    Tim Kerr
    Healthy mind - healthy body - healthy earth.
    Ad astra
    Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

    Jacksonville, NC.

    Equipment:
    Orion XT10 Classic, Celestron C6 R-GT w/updated CG5 GT mount, C80ED
    Canon 350D, Phillips SPC900NC
  • 03-24-2008 06:18 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    Thanks

    I still can't find anything to delete a post.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 07:12 PM In reply to

    • tkerr
    • Joined on 01-02-2004
    • Coastal North Carolina USA.
    • Posts 8,403

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    darticus:

    Thanks

    I still can't find anything to delete a post.

    There should be a Delete Icon next to the Edit and Reply Icons at the bottom of each of your posts. With the exception of those post that have already been replied to.
    At the very bottom of your messages starting from the bottom right corner working towards the left should be Reply all the way to the right with the next being the Edit, Then Delete, then Favorites.. On other peoples post you should see Contact between the Delete and Favorites so you can contact them if you wish via Email or PM. Other people should be able to see the Contact on yours if the wish to contact you.

     

    Have A Nice __________ 

    Signature
    Tim Kerr
    Healthy mind - healthy body - healthy earth.
    Ad astra
    Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

    Jacksonville, NC.

    Equipment:
    Orion XT10 Classic, Celestron C6 R-GT w/updated CG5 GT mount, C80ED
    Canon 350D, Phillips SPC900NC
  • 03-24-2008 08:12 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    Sorry there is 4 boxes but no delete.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
  • 03-24-2008 08:13 PM In reply to

    Re: SATURN and a DSLR image

    This is the first time I'm seeing delete. Guess its ok.

    Signature
    Thanks for everything Ron
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