2006JUNE25 Proceed to First Section to see presentation edits.

click this link http://www.astronomy.com/ASY/CS/forums/1/303875/ShowPost.aspx#303875

2006 JUNE 7 Astronomy GGIH thread has 11,000 views.

Long live the Cyberzoic Period.

morbas

Morbas…

I’m taking an excursion to Manicouagan Crater in a week or so (see the photo in my signature). This is where the rubber meets the road, or the meteor meets the planet I guess. I don’t expect to bring back any more impressive photos than what I have seen on the net while doing my research for the trip. Still, there is lots of mention of the great geology and scenic beauty there, so you never know.

I am going to try to keep a web-ready html based photo journal while away so that when I get back it should be ready to post without delay. I’ll post a link to the full story here, and I’ll also condense anything that I think adds to your thread and put it directly in that post. It may not add anything to your hypothesis (mostly due to my lack of scientific background), but it may lend an interesting side note or at least something to chew on while pondering the possibilities.

That sounds great. Used to live in LI NY, now in South CA. If they have any information on the impact, please copy it. Your photo's will be interesting too. See if they have anything on the Triassic Period termination and how this compares to the impact. If the information desk has a URL, I would appreciate that also. Have fun...

morbas.

13,000 2006JUL17.

In review of information presented by: Just click on the outline on the left column in the following link.

http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/

http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/figures/5_1.html

http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/figures/5_2.html

I see some disparity with Global Temperature, and Global Sea Level variations, between all charts and GGIH. I propose that a Geothermal mechanism regulates temperature through the solar input variations, up until the point the bio-thermal life force regulation breaks down. This is witnessed by the undesputable facts that in a Period Transition, the solar input is directly associated with temperature and sea level.

An interesting observation about the sea levels, that over some 500M (million years) of multiple celled life regulated biosphere, the sea levels have been dropping in almost a linear regression. This tracks the Sun's increase solar output due to it's main sequence of increasing energy output. Note the jump in sea level at the end of the Pre-Cambrian, leading into to the Cambrian Period. I suppose, this is life regulation mechanism assuming control of the environment as it expanded. Also look at what happed immediately after the Permian Extinction when life was extinguished. Life nearly died and the ecosystem declined along with it. As discussed earlier, a recent published paper indicates the Permian Extinction was a thermal run away event. Double whammy Watchout! The present sea level is presently below Permian Extinction sea level and Cambrian Period start date.

http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/figures/5_1.html

 

 

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Appropriately, I dedicate this entry to James Lovelock and the Gaia Hypothesis.

Reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

The Gaia hypothesis forms part of what is scientifically referred to as earth system science, and is a class of scientific models of the geo-biosphere in which life as a whole fosters and maintains suitable conditions for itself by helping to create an environment on Earth suitable for its continuity.

KUDOS Honorable J.Lovelock

 

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/temperature.html#4600Myr

Interesting link on global temperature and sea level changes.

 

But really, the reason that I'm posting to to apologize for not getting back to you sooner about the results of my crater excursion. It was great.

However, I did not get to do the Manic 5 Dam tour. I suspect that even if I did they would not have had much from the astronomy point of view on the crater. They were very into the "Hydro-Quebec" aspect of the whole thing up there.

I did see enough to know that I'm going to plan at least 1 whole week at the crater in a couple years. Also, I am in contact with a terrestrial crater researcher who is going next month. He said that he will send me a link to his new finds when they are up.

If that stuff looks interesting and useful I'll post the link here.

Anyway, here's my link.

http://www.ralphsastronomy.com/Manicouagan/default.htm

And a shot of a boat on the crater lake. I had to take this shot with my point and shoot digital, through my binoculars. I didn't want to change to my long lens on my good camera because there was too much dust from the road in the air. I figure that the boat is about 3 miles away with at least 6 and maybe up to 10 people on it.

 

Great pictures. Reminds me of the Great North West USA and Canada as well. Oh... I am so home sick.

I have another source on the Permian Triassic Terminator uncovered just recently...

http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Benton/reprints/2003TREEPTr.pdf

This informative paper favors a Oceanic CO2 & Methane release in a Global Thermal Runaway Scenario. The cause is open for debate, but the evidence points more to a volcanic CO2 release than a meteorite impact causal.

 However, the Pennsylvanian period preceded the Permian, so global coal deposits were relatively shallow and perhaps very responsive to global warming.  GGIH shows Solar Input Rate was at a maximum (between arms) at that date time, thus a global thermal run away outcome is favored. As a generalists I have to ask...'in the normal hot cold cycling, the hot cycle passed a critcal threshold. The shallow Pennsylvanian coal strata, was available for CO2 input, thus triggering a CO2 run away PTr extinction transition' . Are we not unearthing the Coal,thus producing the same climate with our CO2 emisisons?' 

The PTr was a very sudden extinction ~1My boundary bounding three extinction boundaries (the second one most severe) and that it took 10-100My for a biosphere recovery. The report indicates that Global Warming is a serious issue to present day environmental impact. I have been researching the Little Ice age period since present to 4000 years BP (before present). The end story here is a cold side environment often switches very suddenly between habitable and inhabitable domains.

The Cambrian explosion happened between arms, as the Sun Main sequence warmed, favoring multiple celled organisms.  Multiple cell Gaia produced a biosphere environment. As the Sun warmed further, the largest extinction known to life occurred between arms. Shallow coal fields burned or sublimed into the atmosphere, resulting in a Global Thermal run away. As life further advanced, it created industrial CO2 pollution, reversing natural in arm cooling (a tendency for Ice Age). Scientific endeaver to derive the threshold for thermal run-away has been initiated. Warnings are posted by unrefutable sources. Be further warned, once this threshold is crossed, it cannot be reversed until it runs it's course.

14,000 2006AUG10.

13,000 2006JUL17.

Of all these people using this for reference, anybody with peer review (PhD)status?

Space.com has reported on galactic dark matter (<=link)in the form of deuterium bound to carbon atoms.  They are invisible, but are easily separated by star events, then the separate elements are visible. (Like the arm dust flow and the stars?) The distribution of these molecules are lumpy in the Galaxy. The molecular bonds are weak, possibly an bonding that provides molecular  cohesive force for seeding star formation, as well as Galactic Arm formation. I have always thought Arm Gravity Waves were not fundamental precursor to Arm dynamics. Perhaps from this discovery Galactic engineering will take a giant leap. Science has done it's part.(morbas).

And, it is thought deuterium was made only at the BB origin. Now, just suppose, along with hydrogen, it is fabricated at the Galactic core, and accelerated out of the Galaxy by central bar rotation (1.5 times our 220My angular rate). Hydrogen dust appears to demark all Galactic Arms.

 

Like the planetary classification of the Solar System, the Triassic is now reclassified as the Paleogene Period.

Geologic evidence is leading some to propose the K-Pg extinction was a 10My (Million Years) process of global environmental change. GGIH indicates our solar system had entered the Perseus Arm during this date. My estimate, (supported by the above meteorite datum, arm dynamics and period statistics), indicates a 10My interval arm passage period. Arm dust flow causes Global cooling, drop in sea levels (glaciation), and a faunal changes (food resource).

All this lends great credance to GGIH.

Dear Astronomy, the Geologic Period end-dates are associated with Galactic Astronomical causation.

 

15,000 2006AUG31 14,000 2006AUG10. 13,000 2006JUL17. Of all these people using this for reference, anybody with peer review (PhD)status? Interesting October Issue of ASTRONOMY. 'Where is Life Hiding' It seems the Sun orbits at a special location in the Galactic disc, called co-rotation zone. This is where the galaxy's spiral pattern and the stars between the arms move a roughly the same speed...The Sun can remain suspended between spiral arms for billions of years. Clinging on to some old cliche's dear ASTRONOMY are we...Seems we have a pardigm between dust movement rates, and even understanding what a Galactic Arm is. I must admit though, after looking back at fifteen year old books, that no one had a clue. Lietch/Vasisht appears to have the first published paper of Arm Intersection Rate (140My). It's is ok to be a factor of two off, no it really is OK. But you see, the hydrogen dust has been mapped and does overlay the known Arms. And, most recent measurements have determined it's rate of expansion form the galactic core at 26Km/s (even this is published in ASTRONOMY). Simple geometry between or orbit and the central bar ends gives us a 70My intersection rate. Is that ok ASTRONOMY; No...it is really not. PS: We do not occupy a special location...it is quite ordinary. We are among many systems that co-rotate in the Galactic Plane. The arms do not. Highly eliptic massive stars do not. I request your references please... ------------2006-SEPT-11----------- Guess ASTRONOMY uses no references.

Hmmmm, yeah when I read that little piece I thought of your article here.  So you don't think they have a point, eh.

Davidson report 'Ice Ages linked to galactic position, Study finds Earth may be cooled by movement through Milky Way's stellar clouds' is a fairly decent summary of these theories. Claimed association with Cosmic Rays effecting upper atmosphere cloud modulation of the Earth temperatures is mentioned and counter arguements were included. I came to the realization that science moves in steps because pet concepts are root cause to overly detailed cliches. This appears to be the cause for disagreements. Is all intellectual science a bottom up paradigm? Shouldn't science be top down to encompass the most general observations.

This article provides evidence that in the general scientists view the Solar system moves through Milky Way Arms. One (10 yr old) highly referenced  paper calculates it at 140My. The GGIH is Aristotelian, as it uncovers a holistic geologic-astronomic 74My correlation.

The most recent Scientific America (Oct 2006) has an article 'Impact from the Deep' by Peter Ward. I will wait until the next issue is out before talking to much about this correlation between CO2 peaks and extinction dates. I will remind you to ask yourself 'is this a consequence or cause'...and if it is a cause, by what mechanism does it happen. If life were extinguished, CO2 and Methane will increase radicaly. As previously indicated by GGIH our Permian Extinction is likely a global thermal runaway.

I again appeal to ASTRONOMY that it has its best interests to print GGIH as it shows geologic terminations is astronomic.

2006SEP23 15,943 Guess I have a couple of days to assemble the sweet 16,000 entry...

20,000 2006DEC10

The Milky Way Galaxy is upwards 100,000 Light years in diameter, 1,000 light years thick (outside of the central bulge) with a mass upwards of 0.4 to 1.0 10^12 (trillion) solar masses. Mass is better than 90% hydrogen. It was formed by hydrogen; the central bar is expelling this gas as interstellar medium (arms) having a rich mixture deuterium hydrogen content as well as carbon. We are presently in the outer edge of the Orion Arm, having crossed into it 2 million years ago. The Orion Arm gas is expanding out of the central core crossing our orbital at a present rate of 26Km/sec.

Geologic and Meteorite statistics indicate time to complete transit is 8 million years. This is supported as well by Gas/Dust measurement of the Galaxy, overlaying (defining) the arms. It is interesting that the 29My Galactic Plane crossing and the 74My Arm transition are almost harmonic.

The general concepts that the Milky Way is formed by aggregation of other galaxies has just been disproved by the scientific community href="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060918_galactic_bulge.html" mce_href="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060918_galactic_bulge.html" >http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060918_galactic_bulge.html

I wish to thank the readership for the high viewer levels. Re-invigoration of this sight with scientific inquiry would be the result of publishing this article in Astronomy.

The GGIH proposes a galactic central bar 360 degree rotation at 145 My. I am gathering independent measurements on this subject. I have found no relevant published research on central bar rotation rate. Does anybody have sources for this?

 

This from Honorable Wright.

Institute of Astronomy and the Trinity University, thesis paper  Numerical Simulations of Disc Galaxy Formation 4 July 2002

Image has been blocked....

Computer simulation of Galaxy Formation. I have her paper. Go to http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/~ljw/work/ and see an animation of a central bar Galaxy formation.

This link has been secured. But I do have a copy of her paper, as it was feely posted on the web. I wonder if she would like to comment....

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Lowell,

Your comment is well taken. I will say this, however. The prognosis that the Galactic Arms overlayed nicely with Geologic Periods on 74My periods, was found by myself 1998 +/-1 yr. I proposed it to this sight few years later, and found that to cement it I had to delve into the Milky Way Arm Dynamics. At that time (and now) measurements were being published that fit nicely with the arm intercept rates etc. Perhaps, the random publishing of findings in this thread attest to that. I wish to thank all participants for spuring me on.

 

Morbas, I really respect you tenacity. Develop an hypothesis, consider material, speculate on outcome. Reading your research is like eating peanuts, can't get enough. All that aside, and forgive my ignorance of the subject, did the PhD from England confirm your theory? What did she deduce from her thesis? Did anyone from Astronomy Magazine fill in any of the blanks since you asked for help? Did you get any peer review? I've read Peter Ward's work and find him very interesting, even to the non specialist reader. For those of us waiting to find out if the galaxy is going to affect our Sun or Earth's weather could you provide some really basic answers? Or at least what to look for in the next facet of your quest. Thank you for a wonderful read. Even though I'm not able to grasp all your concepts I sure like stretching my brain to try. Lowell

All that aside, and forgive my ignorance of the subject, did the PhD from England confirm your theory? What did she deduce from her thesis? Did anyone from Astronomy Magazine fill in any of the blanks since you asked for help? Did you get any peer review?

No.

For those of us waiting to find out if the galaxy is going to affect our Sun or Earth's weather could you provide some really basic answers?

The next Quest.... 

The Orion Arm dust flow is doing it's very best at saving us from an Industrial Green House Gas induced Permian Extinction thermal run away . It is loosing. We have the opportunity to manage ourselves out of extinctions.

"Our climate crisis may at time appear to be happening slowly, but in fact is is happening very quickly-and has become a true planetry emergency" Al Gore.

Think green, act green, buy green, be green.... 

-morbas-

 

Morbas, I have always wondered if the "little ice age" circa 15th century ad was an indication that the Earth may occupy certain areas in space where climate may be affected by either distance from the sun or solar activity or some other astronomical activity that would affect Earth's climate. Do you see the emergence from a specific area ( the Orion Dust Arm) of space ie. a cluster or spiral arm of our Galaxy as an indication that climate has or will change? Is there a cyclic pattern of "little ice ages" that might add some information on astronomical patterns? What do you posit will happen to the Earth's climate when either India or China or both add more greenhouse gas to Earth's atmosphere? Lowell

 

21,007 2006DEC28 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

The Orion arm passage began about 2Ma, about the time of the emergence of our species. The little ice ages are probably helped by the Orion Arm, but these are much to small a period to be controlled by a 10My passage through the Orion Arm. You will want to look at another causation for 'mini ice age' cycles. I think Illinois University  has some faculty specialists on this era.

As far as Green House Gas effects, the cycle (IMHO) will be polar melting, ocean warming, and then a methane gas release. Of course with a causation effect, we also have the ability to regulate the green house gas to make Earth a Ecotopia for life. Long live the Gaia Theory.

 

PS: The mini ice ages were very severe and rapid environmental swings that had far ranging geo political effects. For an intriguing overview of this read The Winds of Change by Eugene Linden. It appears that entire civilizations were ended and changed by a very rapid change (one season) in weather that persisted for decades. Causation is wildly speculative, but Global Ocean Circulation interuption has these qualities.  To get a global perspective, read Earth in the Balance by Al Gore,

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By observing using the full spectrum of all sciences, we peer through obscurations and uncover the Milky Way Structure. Nature is talking to us, all we need is the sensitivity to listen. /// morbas.

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Thank you Astronomy for your web sight.

Morbas

I like this whole topic of discussion and your tenacity.  I think you really have something here, at least in terms of the geological and evolutionary events that occurred on earth, and hope it gets some further recognition (more than it already has at least, and an article in Astronomy magazine would be nice ).  

I was considering asking you to provide an overall summary of the theory up to this point, which would help some people coming in to the topic to get an overall view of the theory, but it doesn't seem fair to ask of you after all the work you have put into it already, and it isn't really necessary.

The discussion we were having in the "why is the universe silent" topic actually helped me understand this theory better, and in that discussion you have summarized the main points quite nicely.  If it is a true theory, and your predictions are right about where we are heading (runaway global warming) then we better figure out how to do some fancy space travelling and fast if our species wants to survive more than a few more centuries (or less).

22,004 2006JAN16  

I like this whole topic of discussion and your tenacity.  I think you really have something here, at least in terms of the geological and evolutionary events that occurred on earth, and hope it gets some further recognition (more than it already has at least, and an article in Astronomy magazine would be nice " border="0" width="15" height="15" />).

Overview... 

Assuming the solar system passes through the Galactic Arms on a 74M interval, the Geologic Periods end and begin within the arm passage. Further more, four geologic periods end midway between the arms.  All the evidence I can find indicates this is plausible. The Arms cause solar radiation fluxuation, high power between the arms, and low power in the arms. This fluxuation stresses the environment such that it favors a type of extinction. The Permian extinction is a likely global thermal runaway. The Cetacious occured in the arm, where the density of asteroids is highest, and further more, some geologists think it ended in an ice age earlier than the KT event. All the evidence I have presented was developed independent of the GGIH. The Hydrogen dust flow is from the Galactic Center, probably originating from the Galactic Central Arm. I calculate a 74M intercetion rate for these waves of hydrogen/dust moving at 26Km/s (the measured dust flow rate). You are forcing me to re-write the GGIH article aren't you...Well, to skip the details, the Milky Way Galaxy has effectively forced the Periods. The speculation is that period termination enhanced evolutionary steps to technological intelligence. Let us fold in another restriction, the SUN is heating up as it moves through the main sequence. Thus, the distance from the sun where solar radiation balances against space thermal loss, that allows liquid water to exist, is always moving outward. This limits the time span for life to evolve into a technological intellect. Mixing the Galaxy Arm interception rate with this increase in solar radiation, results in a 600M+/