Deep-sky objects

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

David Knisely — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:38:36 GMT

MaddCow wrote:
Never wrote:

Too bad I don't have H-Beta filter and am not planning to get one either. Interesting object anyway, will have to try it next spring under dark skies with naked eye and one of the refractors.
As I said, in my sketch the nebulosity is clustered starlight. I believe it when I see it
Of course, when you know you're "supposed" to see nebulosity around Cr 69, it is a lot more easier to see and leaves some observers far too open for suggestion.

/Jake
You don't have an H-beta filter? What are you waiting for? With all the faint nebulae you observe I took it for granted you had one. There are about 15-20 nebulae I've found that respond best to H-beta filtration, most of them Sharpless, but seeing as how you observe alot of Sharpless too, you really should get one! Since I certainly haven't observed or attempted to observe all the faint nebulae in the sky, extrapolate the 15ish H-beta targets I have found to the whole sky, and I would bet there are something like 30 or more visually observable H-beta targets.
I agree with you on "open to suggestion" part about nebulosity around Meissa. However, I THINK David Knisely probably did see it, since he felt pretty certain, and he's a pretty experienced observer. The bounds of Sh2-264 extend FAR past Cr 69. When I observed with this my scope, I actually detected no nebulosity anywhere around Cr 69- instead I detected the contrast between the western/northwestern edge of the nebula and the background sky. The problem is, does the naked eye provide enough magnification to separte the most detectable part of Sh2-264, the edge, and the pseudonebulosity created by Cr 69? I don't think I personally can, but apparently Skiff and Knisely can.

Yes, I have used the Lumicon H-Beta filter held up to my eye to view the Lambda Orionis nebula complex on a very dark and clear night. It is *very* large and not just clustered around the glare of CR 69, as I would estimate that what I saw was at least four degrees across. It consists of Sh2-264 and another area of nebulosity surrounding it which has no listed designator in MEGASTAR. Clear skies to you.

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

Never — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:03:54 GMT

$100 is a bit too much for 20 nebulae that UHC will probably show as well. Also, H-beta is quite difficult to buy in here, just one shop and I'd like to get Lumicon's not the Baader's.

Probably just borrow it from the section or somewhere else and try B33 with it. I've used H-beta filter a few times and that has been enough for the time being. Maybe one day if I have extra $100 hanging around, probably even then will just get a new eyepiece.

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

MaddCow — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:45 GMT

Never wrote:

Too bad I don't have H-Beta filter and am not planning to get one either. Interesting object anyway, will have to try it next spring under dark skies with naked eye and one of the refractors.
As I said, in my sketch the nebulosity is clustered starlight. I believe it when I see it
Of course, when you know you're "supposed" to see nebulosity around Cr 69, it is a lot more easier to see and leaves some observers far too open for suggestion.

/Jake

You don't have an H-beta filter? What are you waiting for? With all the faint nebulae you observe I took it for granted you had one. There are about 15-20 nebulae I've found that respond best to H-beta filtration, most of them Sharpless, but seeing as how you observe alot of Sharpless too, you really should get one! Since I certainly haven't observed or attempted to observe all the faint nebulae in the sky, extrapolate the 15ish H-beta targets I have found to the whole sky, and I would bet there are something like 30 or more visually observable H-beta targets.

I agree with you on "open to suggestion" part about nebulosity around Meissa. However, I THINK David Knisely probably did see it, since he felt pretty certain, and he's a pretty experienced observer. The bounds of Sh2-264 extend FAR past Cr 69. When I observed with this my scope, I actually detected no nebulosity anywhere around Cr 69- instead I detected the contrast between the western/northwestern edge of the nebula and the background sky. The problem is, does the naked eye provide enough magnification to separte the most detectable part of Sh2-264, the edge, and the pseudonebulosity created by Cr 69? I don't think I personally can, but apparently Skiff and Knisely can.

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

Never — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:40:40 GMT

Too bad I don't have H-Beta filter and am not planning to get one either. Interesting object anyway, will have to try it next spring under dark skies with naked eye and one of the refractors.

As I said, in my sketch the nebulosity is clustered starlight. I believe it when I see it

Of course, when you know you're "supposed" to see nebulosity around Cr 69, it is a lot more easier to see and leaves some observers far too open for suggestion.

/Jake

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

MaddCow — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:22:25 GMT

I'm pretty sure all naked eye observations of Sh2-264 have been made with an H-beta filter. I know that David Knisely said he saw Sh2-264 with an H-beta filter held to the eye, fairly recently.

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

Never — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:06:57 GMT

I haven't tried it with the naked eye - it is not THAT bright. I think Brian Skiff saw it naked eye or something, I wonder how, probably with filters. My sketch from Cr 69 shows nebulosity but it is not real nebulosity but something else:

I've spotted the nebulosity with my 8" Orion... the glare from the bright stars is probably not as bad as it is with large apertures.

/Jake

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

MaddCow — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:31:18 GMT

Never wrote:

MaddCow wrote:
The last few months I have began to wonder… is Sh2-264 actually observable visually?
Yes, it is actually visible with the naked eye. Just a quick update,
/Jake

Heh, I was just returning after a long absence and saw you replied. Yea, I was made aware that some people had managed to spot it naked eye from dark spots. Have you ever managed it? I've never tried with it personally, but in general, I find it very hard to sight through a filter naked eye due to annoying and distracting reflections off the glass, and the near-instant dewing of filters when they get within 2 feet of me. The same problem hampers me when I tried to "blink" filters between my eye and the eyepiece.

PS... seems like they sped up the forum servers finally?

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

Never — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:26:32 GMT

MaddCow wrote:
The last few months I have began to wonder… is Sh2-264 actually observable visually?

Yes, it is actually visible with the naked eye. Just a quick update,

/Jake

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

DarkStar2 — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:02:11 GMT

Hey Clint,
I can't wait to use my chair- should arrive on Friday. Got the green light to purchase a new digital camera from my wife. Didn't hold back- got the Canon EOS 20D. That should arrive on Friday as well. Read a great write up on the 20Da and would have bought it instead but the article said that with it's increase sensitivity to different wave lengths, daytime photography suffers- "blacks" become "dark reds". I bought the SteadyPix when I purchased my scope and can't wait to snap a few photos hooked up to my scope. I actually took a descent picture last year of Jupiter with my inexpensive digital camera. Got a great one of the moon with my old Canon AE1. Now all I need is a scope that tracks.

Dave

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

cgate — Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:37:42 GMT

I agree. Very impressive report! What aperture were you using?

DarkStar2-- You are going to love the Starbound chair. I have one and it makes looking through my dob (XT10 Classic) so much more enjoyable than crouching over or standing all the time with it on some kind of box or table. I use it with my refractors too. One of the best accessories I have ever gotten.

Re: Sh2-264 observed!

DarkStar2 — Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:30:58 GMT

What an awesome report, MaddCow!!! Had me sitting on the edge of my seat! It also made me cry!!! I have had my Orion XT10" Intelliscope for almost a year now and have yet to take it on a serious road trip to a DARK location. With my present work load, it doesn't look good for this to happen anytime soon. My B-Day is next week and really want a H-Beta filter for it. Just ordered a Starbound chair and may have to wait a little longer for the filter. Your report has given me an additional item to look for when I do make it to the desert to observe.
Thanks for the info. and Clear skies!!!

Dave

Sh2-264 observed!

MaddCow — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:55:00 GMT

A lot of people know about Sh2-264, but few know the name. It’s the huge, roundish nebulosity at Orion’s head.

Spanning a good four or five degrees across, this nebula has a very low surface brightness. I long assumed that it was unobservable.

The last few months I have began to wonder… is Sh2-264 actually observable visually? Some images show it as just a little bit fainter than Banard's Loop, and I can see Banard's Loop pretty well from sites that are dark enough. Searching the internet, I came across this long exposure image:

http://forum.ourdarkskies.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3475

I realized my best shot at detecting this nebula would be to sweep back and forth across the nebular edge I have arrowed in the image, and see if I could detect the slight increase in background sky brightness.

A few months later, on January 3^rd, I was driving down to the darkest site in Alabama I have access to, Conecuh National Forest, located on the Florida line. The skies are DARK there. M33 was naked eye- with the moon still up!!! Once the moon set at 9pm, the sky REALLY got dark. M33 was an easy, fuzzy glow. The Horsehead nebula was easily visible without the H-beta filter, and Banard’s Loop was bright. I knew that now was the time to try out Sh2-264!

Leaving the H-beta filter in the 27mm Panoptic (I had just gotten done gawking at my best-ever view of the Horsehead nebula- it looked better than some images I have seen of it), I moved the scope up to Meissa, then star-hopped to a location at about

5h 30m +12 20’. Sweeping the scope back and forth in a northerly-southerly direction, I could detect a very faint increase in sky background brightness right at the correct location. I moved the scope south west in a line that followed the arrowed nebular edge in the second image. I was able to trace a very faint increase in sky background brightness in a rough line from about 5h 33m +12 30’ down to 5h 24m +10 30’! This matched perfectly well with the long exposure image of the nebula I found on the net! Trying the UHC and OIII filters, I found that the nebula was dimmed to the point of invisibility or near invisibility. For a final sanity check, I removed all filters from the system, and checked to make sure a slight increase in the number of background stars could be responsible for the “nebula” I was seeing. If anything, the sky background at the nebula’s position was slightly DARKER than the surrounding sky with no filter in the system!

Putting the H-beta filter back into the system, I decided that the “brightest” of

Sh2-264 appeared to be around 5h 32m +12 30’. This area seemed to be signifigantly brighter than the other end of the nebular edge I detected, which faded out of view around the position where Uranometria plots the dark nebula B224.

After these observations I must accept that I have actually seen this ultra-faint nebula. I searched through the internet, and I cannot seem to find another visual telescope observation of this nebula, though one person claims to have seen it by holding a nebula filter up to his eye and seeing it naked-eye (if that can truly be considered naked-eye). Taking this into consideration, I certainly cannot be the first person to see it telescopically, especially since it is such a well-known nebula appearing in so many long exposure images.

It was very gratifying making these observations, and I can hardly wait till I return to this dark site and do some follow-up observing!