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confusion about gravitational lensing
Last post 02-09-2010 06:22 PM by RIP_Shadowfox. 9 replies.
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  • 01-29-2010 02:43 AM

    confusion about gravitational lensing

     "According to general relativity, mass "warps" space-time to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light as a result. This theory was confirmed in 1919 during a solar eclipse, when Arthur Eddington observed the light from stars passing close to the sun was slightly bent, so that stars appeared slightly out of position." - Wikipedia article "Gravitational lens"

     i hear all the time that it's the dark matter within galaxies that causes gravitational lensing of other galaxies. if the sun can cause gravitational lensing, why can't it be true that it's just the combined mass of all the matter in a galaxy that causes the lensing, and not necessarily dark matter?

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    "The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
  • 01-29-2010 07:38 AM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    Because the amount of warpage which is observed is far greater than what can be accounted for by the visible mass in those galaxies.  There must be something we cannot see adding the the gravitational effect.

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    “Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.” (Eskimo proverb)

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  • 01-29-2010 10:55 AM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

     aha! thanks for the answer, zachsdad.

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    "The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
  • 02-09-2010 01:08 AM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

     so i was recently reading a thread in the cosmology section of the forums about the dark matter/H2 debate. ive never really agreed with the theory of dark matter, and i think the molecular hydrogen side of the debate is a more believable alternative. any thoughts?

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    "The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
  • 02-09-2010 06:43 AM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    That molecular H2 argument sounds pretty plausible until you realize that the amount of hydrogen we can account for matches very well what the BBT predicts.  So, where did all this extra H2 come from?  We are talking about more H2, in mass, than all the visible material in the universe.  The BBT would have to be waaaay off.  Those same calculations nail the amount of helium very well.

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    “Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.” (Eskimo proverb)

    18" Obsession Classic dob #1665
    10" Orion Skyquest Classic dob
    120mm Orion ST achromat
    15 X 70 celestron Skymaster binoculars
  • 02-09-2010 11:38 AM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

     any chance there's some nearly invisible helium out there too?

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    "The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
  • 02-09-2010 01:07 PM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    RIP_Shadowfox:

     any chance there's some nearly invisible helium out there too?

    In my humble opinion, no.  I don't have any problem with the concept of Dark Matter.  I just see it as something which has an effect we can measure, but we just can't understand it yet.  Heck, we are in the same boat with gravity itself, we know it exists (with all the snow and ice this winter I'm very aware of gravity's potential to demonstrate itself to me every time I walk outside ) but we don't really know what it is, yet.  Dark Matter is not magic, it's just shy.

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    “Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.” (Eskimo proverb)

    18" Obsession Classic dob #1665
    10" Orion Skyquest Classic dob
    120mm Orion ST achromat
    15 X 70 celestron Skymaster binoculars
  • 02-09-2010 01:22 PM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    What are the possibilities that dark matter is a consequence of higher dimensional events, that of which we can't perceive?

    I'm a firm believer in multiverse theory, and I am fascinated with the theory that some physicists have proposed that gravity actually propagates through as many as 11 dimensions, and since we only perceive 3 spatial dimensions, we perceive gravity as being somewhat weak.

    Could the same go for dark matter? Is it possible we are experiencing a phenomenon that's not entirely of our 3-dimensional spatial universe?

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    "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit next to that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein
  • 02-09-2010 01:53 PM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    It's my opinion that Dark Matter and Dark Energy are firmly rooted in this universe.  We are still in our technological infancy, as we develop better tools we'll better understand the workings of the cosmos. 

    I don't spend much time thinking about the multi-verse possiblity because even if there are a million other universes 'out-there' we will never be able to know them, or even to sense them, so their existance is entirely speculation and mathematical gymnastics.  There's plenty in this universe to break my brain over.

    Signature
    “Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.” (Eskimo proverb)

    18" Obsession Classic dob #1665
    10" Orion Skyquest Classic dob
    120mm Orion ST achromat
    15 X 70 celestron Skymaster binoculars
  • 02-09-2010 06:22 PM In reply to

    Re: confusion about gravitational lensing

    zachsdad:
    or even to sense them,
    whatever happened to that project to search the cmb for hot spots where another universe might be touching ours?
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    "The search for truth is more precious than its possession." - Albert Einstein
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