Others have expressed an overwhelming sense of futility regarding correcting our energy and environmental problems, correctly pointing out that everything we do consumes energy--the manufacture of goods, the transport, even the finding and  processing of the raw materials.. We as a society (pretty much the entire western world, now) are conditioned to consume.  Our economy's very health depends on it.

  How can we fix our problems?

  I want to remind you that for thousands of years, humanity lived in relative peace with the natural world.  It was only relatively late-- around 1700, that industrialization and the pollution that comes with it began to strongly impact the Earth.  Ironically, the very industries that allowed humankind to thrive in the short term are now, apparently, putting our continued prosperity and stability in grave danger.  Industry contributed to the subsequent population explosion, that in itself fed back into even more rapid industrialization.  In a few centuries, the world population expanded from a relatively stable paltry 100s of millions to billions--and billions.  All we had to do, at the base,  was burn carbon.

  It is not our faults as individuals that we were born in this age, and are enmeshed in the economic framework of a consumer society.    This is merely restating the problem, not an indictment of any possible solution.  However, armed with the best available evidence, and a clear sense of what is at stake, it is our duty to our ancestors and future generations to begin the process of correcting our incomplete understanding of planetary physcis, and implement sound and viable solutions to insure continued surival of homo sapiens.

  Green energy is the key to this long term survival, in eventual combination with population control (the earth  can only feed so many..perhaps the next generations problem.).  Let's not surrender to futility about our baseness and twisted natures, but rise to the level our greatest achievements and our most noble aspirations.

   If we fail, we will have passed from the cosmos with honor. But if we do not try, failure is a certainty, and an unfortunate waste of one of nature's amazing creations.

  We can do better.

I strongly disagree with everything you just wrote. The world is not in peril. Our environment is not in peril. The world is not overpopulated. There is plenty of food to feed all the people in the world (there are areas where political leaders use food as a weapon, but there is plenty of food).

Today's energy situation is not a crisis. Climate change is not a crisis.

In this country we have an energy problem caused by a high worledwide demand for oil and a large group of people who don't want us to drill the oil that we have. It is a political situation, but it is not a crisis and certainly not a worldwide crisis.

cyberpatzer:

   Others have expressed an overwhelming sense of futility regarding correcting our energy and environmental problems, correctly pointing out that everything we do consumes energy--the manufacture of goods, the transport, even the finding and  processing of the raw materials.. We as a society (pretty much the entire western world, now) are conditioned to consume.  Our economy's very health depends on it.

 I believe I resemble that remark!  Don't get me wrong, I do not suggest we throw up our hands and give in to the inevitable.  By all means we should fight the good fight and see if we can overcome our predisposition to destriction.  I am simply pessimistic of our chances.

I want to remind you that for thousands of years, humanity lived in relative peace with the natural world.

This only occured in the societies where the drive to "civilize" was stagnant.  In tribal communities with limited populations humans have lived in balance with their surroundings.  It has never happened when populations have begun to congregate.  Even the ancient Egyptian, Greek, and Mayan cultures were intent on reforming the land, and taking from it, to build their cities and temples.  What is happening today is a natural progression of that drive.  Mankind, in large numbers, is the most destructive parasite in the history of the planet.

  Green energy is the key to this long term survival, in eventual combination with population control (the earth  can only feed so many..perhaps the next generations problem.).  Let's not surrender to futility about our baseness and twisted natures, but rise to the level our greatest achievements and our most noble aspirations.

I don't mean this to be as insensitive as it is going to read, but it is easy for us to sit here at our keyboards, knowing where our next meal is going to come from, knowing that our children are relativly safe and healthy, and talk about our noble aspirations.  The vast majority of the 6 billion people on this planet do not care about carbon emmissions.  If we want people to work together to ensure our long-term global survival, we better first figure out how to ensure the short-term survival of it's inhabitants.   Hunger, war, disease; those are the day-to-day issues that threaten this planet, not a 1 to 2 mm annual sea level increase.

If we fail, we will have passed from the cosmos with honor. But if we do not try, failure is a certainty, and an unfortunate waste of one of nature's amazing creations.

  We can do better.

 

Perhaps it is our fate to fail.  In nature animal and plant populations that grow out of balance with their environment suffer for it.  Why should we be any different?  We will never be in harmony with our planet until we are in harmony with each other. 

We must be better.

  Both of your attitiudes make me profoundly sad.  But, I can assure you, you and your kind will be carried by the willing who have not yet surrendered to passivity and cynicism--just as your kind have always been carried.  Every invention, advancement, and revolution was fueled by the  energetic and optimistic and guided by vision and hope.

  Even now, individual attitudes and government policies are in the process of changing on a fairly rapid scale that  is only increasing.  Technology is coming on line and industry is responding by the sure common sense-and economic cents--of green energy.  It will be a long fight with many ups and downs, but ultimately, after much suffering, the grand conversion will take place.  There is no alternative.

 Enjoy the ride.  Watch what insightful, active, and optimistic humanity can do.  I do not understand, at a fundamental level, the war you choose to wage.  I do not see the reward in it, except some moribund fascination with despair.  I reject your hopelessness.

   Only courage will carry us forward. 

    Fortes Fortuna Iuvat.

     Fortune favors the brave!

cyberpatzer:

Both of your attitiudes make me profoundly sad.  But, I can assure you, you and your kind will be carried by the willing who have not yet surrendered to passivity and cynicism--just as your kind have always been carried.  Every invention, advancement, and revolution was fueled by the  energetic and optimistic and guided by vision and hope.

That is funny. You can be sure that nobody carries me. Nobody has ever carried me.

I have a job. I pay my taxes. I obey the law. I stay informed of the issues and I vote. I have been a husband and father. I have been active in community affairs for years. I have donated over 5 gallons of blood in my life. I have helped build six different houses with Habitat for Humanity. I am a trained Red Cross volunteer. I sponsor a child in Africa through Christian Chidren's Fund.

If you think you are carrying me, you better look and see who is on your back, cause it ain't me.

You have no idea, who I am, or what "kind" I am.  I was active in civil rights, environmental, and anti-war issues almost 40 years ago, while you still urinating in you Huggies.  No one has every had to carry me anywhere, nor will they in the future. 

You can believe yourself to be as energetic and optomistic as you wish, but I have repededly read posts where you refer to the stupidity of the general public as if you alone have been granted some special gift of insight.  It is the masses of this world that will either turn it around, or drive it into oblivion, not those of you who think they know what's best for the rest of the world.

But, go ahead and try to legislate us into Utopia.  That's always worked so well in the past.  My pessimisim comes from years of watching people focus on the symptoms of problems and ignore the root causes, because it is so much easier and more politically correct to that than to get their hands dirty.

I'm not waging any war.  I'm just answering the questions you ask as honestly as I can, but I realize now that you don't want honest opinions unless they agree with your world view.  You are looking for a fight.  Is that you idea of being insightful, active and optomistic?  If so go ahead and get on the Happy Bus with the rest and enjoy your ride.  I hope you remember all the words to Kum By Ya.

I reject your shallowness.

  The general public is stupid, and I don't have a gift of insight.  And yes, the general public will somehow have to be mobilized to some sort of action, if only voting, to change things in this country.  It appears that $4.00 a gallon gas should do it, where environmental disaster would not.

   All the good works you've done make it all the more puzzling why this issue raises your hackles and forces a stance in almost direct oppostion to environmentalism, feeding the poor, etc..

  There will never be utopia.  People will always suffer. I am not religious and I despise Kum -by- ya.    The masses of this world generally do what they are told or what is immediately obvious, hence the term "masses".  We're talking about moving the pendulum in the other direction.  If you wait for a cure for human nature, you will be disappointed.

  I'm glad you've paid your taxes, got married, held a job, voted, and all the other functions of being an upstanding citizen.  You've done far, far more than most in your activism.  As far as being "carried" I am refering to this issue.  But yes, fighting for a vision of a future that promises great benefit for all--as energy is the foundation of economies--is a part of my optimism. 

  I don't know you.  I only know what you write.  People who serve as active barriers to change, either through voting, corporate or media activites will be, by default, carried if the general model of global warming and its solution are correct and sought out.  Or call it what you will. 

   And the final lesson I've learned,-age by no means correlates with wisdom (but does track rather well with depression....).

  I am done with Astronomy Magazine and this web site.  I will go insulate myself with my tribe and leave you to yours.  This issue is too real for me to even pretend to play along--

This need not get personal. Stop it, please.

chipdatajeffB:

This need not get personal. Stop it, please.

You are right, of course.  Sorry for any escalation.

TD

I think I've seen enough self idolization and public degrading for one topic. Thread locked.