Here's Brian's list as it appears on the ftp:

Working list of naked-eye deep-sky objects
version:  24 Oct 2002

Naked-eye Messier objects:

M2,3,4,5,6,7,8,11,13,15,16,17,20,22,23,24,25,31,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,41,
42,44,45,46,47,48,50,67,81,83?,92?,93


NGC/IC

NGC   55 ?   [probably visible if NGC 253 can be seen]
NGC  104 = 47 Tuc
NGC  253
NGC  346 = in SMC
NGC  362
NGC  457
NGC  752
NGC  869 = h Per
NGC  884 = chi Per
NGC 1499 = California Neb.  [requires UHC or H-beta filter]
NGC 1528 ?   [probably straightforward, haven't tried]
NGC 1647 ?
NGC 1746 ?
NGC 1977 etc  (second * of Ori Sword)
NGC 1980 = iota Ori group
NGC 1981  (top * of Ori Sword)
NGC 2070 = 30 Dor = Tarantula
NGC 2169 ?
NGC 2244 (Rosette)  [cluster easy, nebula requires UHC or [OIII] filter]
NGC 2264
NGC 2281 ?
NGC 2301 ?
NGC 2451
NGC 2477
NGC 2516
NGC 2546
NGC 2547
IC 2391 = omicron Vel
NGC 2808 ?
NGC 3114
IC 2581
NGC 3293
NGC 3372
IC 2602 = theta Car = southern Pleaides
NGC 3532
NGC 3766 ?  [background may be too bright]
NGC 4755 = kappa Cru = Jewelbox
NGC 5128 ?  [bright background, but several positive reports]
NGC 5139 = omega Cen
NGC 5460 ?   [probably straightforward from the south]
NGC 6025
NGC 6067   [similar to M11]
NGC 6124
NGC 6193
NGC 6231   [plus Tr 24 below]
NGC 6242 ?
NGC 6281 ?
NGC 6383
NGC 6397
IC 4665
NGC 6633
IC 4756
NGC 6752
NGC 7000 = North America Neb.
NGC 7293 = Helix Neb.
IC 1396
NGC 7789



Others:
SMC
Stock 2  ?  [have tried this several times, but background may be too bright]
Melotte 20 = alpha Per cluster
Melotte 25 = Hyades
LMC
Sharpless 264 = lambda Ori Neb.
Sharpless 276 = Barnard's Loop
Melotte 111 = Coma
Trumpler 24
Collinder 399 = "Coathanger"  [not a physical cluster]

Here's Yann Pothier's list of naked-eye DSOs from latitude 45 degrees north.

n° Cat.; const.; type
Basel  6; CYG; open cluster
Berk  21; ORI; open cluster
Berk  86; CYG; open cluster
Biur  2; CYG; open cluster
Blanco 1; SCL; open cluster
Bochum 01; GEM; open cluster
Bochum 04; PUP; open cluster
Bochum 05; PUP; open cluster
Bochum 07; VEL; open cluster
Bochum 13; SCO; open cluster
Bochum 15; PUP; open cluster
Cr 033; CAS; open cluster
Cr 034; CAS; open cluster
Cr 062; AUR; open cluster
Cr 065; ORI; open cluster
Cr 069; ORI; open cluster
Cr 070; ORI; open cluster
Cr 089; GEM; open cluster
Cr 091; MON; open cluster
Cr 096; MON; open cluster
Cr 097; MON; open cluster
Cr 106; MON; open cluster
Cr 107; MON; open cluster
Cr 111; MON; open cluster
Cr 121; CMA; open cluster
Cr 132; CMA; open cluster
Cr 135; PUP; open cluster
Cr 140; CMA; open cluster
Cr 185; PUP; open cluster
Cr 197; VEL; open cluster
Cr 285; UMA; open cluster
Cr 302; SCO; open cluster
Cr 316; SCO; open cluster
Cr 350; OPH; open cluster
Cr 367; SGR; open cluster
Cr 394; SGR; open cluster
Cr 399; VUL; open cluster
Cr 401; AQL; open cluster
Cr 419; CYG; open cluster
Cr 463; CAS; open cluster
Cr 464; CAM; open cluster
Do 25; MON; open cluster
Harvard 20; SGE; open cluster
IC 0348; PER; open cluster+dif.nebula
IC 1396; CEP; open cluster+dif.nebula
IC 1805; CAS; open cluster+dif.nebula
IC 1848; CAS; open cluster+dif.nebula
IC 4665; OPH; open cluster
IC 4756; SER; open cluster
IC 4996; CYG; open cluster
M002; AQR; globular cluster
M003; CVN; globular cluster
M004; SCO; globular cluster
M005; SER; globular cluster
M006; SCO; open cluster
M007; SCO; open cluster
M008; SGR; open cluster+dif.nebula
M011; SCT; open cluster
M012; OPH; globular cluster
M013; HER; globular cluster
M015; PEG; globular cluster
M016; SER; open cluster+dif.nebula
M017; SGR; open cluster+dif.nebula
M018; SGR; open cluster
M020; SGR; open cluster+dif.nebula
M021; SGR; open cluster
M022; SGR; globular cluster
M023; SGR; open cluster
M024; SGR; open cluster
M025; SGR; open cluster
M028; SGR; globular cluster
M029; CYG; open cluster
M031; AND; galaxy
M033; TRI; galaxy
M034; PER; open cluster
M035; GEM; open cluster
M036; AUR; open cluster
M037; AUR; open cluster
M038; AUR; open cluster
M039; CYG; open cluster
M041; CMA; open cluster
M042; ORI; open cluster+dif.nebula
M044; CNC; open cluster
M045; TAU; open cluster+dif.nebula
M046; PUP; open cluster
M047; PUP; open cluster
M048; HYA; open cluster
M050; MON; open cluster
M052; CAS; open cluster
M062; OPH; globular cluster
M067; CNC; open cluster
M081; UMA; galaxy
M092; HER; globular cluster
M093; PUP; open cluster
Mel 015; CAS; open cluster
Mel 020; Per; open cluster
Mel 022; Tau; open cluster
Mel 025; TAU; open cluster
Mel 071; PUP; open cluster
Mel 111; Com; open cluster
Mel 186; OPH; open cluster
Mrk   6; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0055; SCL; galaxy
NGC 0129; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0225; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0253; SCL; galaxy
NGC 0281; CAS; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 0457; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0654; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0659; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0663; CAS; open cluster
NGC 0744; PER; open cluster
NGC 0752; AND; open cluster
NGC 0869; PER; open cluster
NGC 0884; PER; open cluster
NGC 0957; PER; open cluster
NGC 1027; CAS; open cluster
NGC 1342; PER; open cluster
NGC 1444; PER; open cluster
NGC 1499; PER; dif.nebula
NGC 1502; CAM; open cluster
NGC 1528; PER; open cluster
NGC 1545; PER; open cluster
NGC 1582; PER; open cluster
NGC 1647; TAU; open cluster
NGC 1662; ORI; open cluster
NGC 1664; AUR; open cluster
NGC 1746; TAU; open cluster
NGC 1778; AUR; open cluster
NGC 1807; TAU; open cluster
NGC 1817; TAU; open cluster
NGC 1851; COL; globular cluster
NGC 1857; AUR; open cluster
NGC 1893; AUR; open cluster
NGC 1980; ORI; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 1981; ORI; open cluster
NGC 2129; GEM; open cluster
NGC 2169; ORI; open cluster
NGC 2175; ORI; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 2175S; ORI; open cluster
NGC 2232; MON; open cluster
NGC 2237; MON; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 2244; MON; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 2251; MON; open cluster
NGC 2252; MON; open cluster
NGC 2264; MON; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 2281; AUR; open cluster
NGC 2286; MON; open cluster
NGC 2301; MON; open cluster
NGC 2335; MON; open cluster
NGC 2343; MON; open cluster
NGC 2345; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2353; MON; open cluster
NGC 2354; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2360; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2362; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2367; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2384; CMA; open cluster
NGC 2396; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2414; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2423; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2439; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2451; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2467; PUP; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 2477; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2482; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2483; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2489; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2506; MON; open cluster
NGC 2527; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2533; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2539; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2546; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2567; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2571; PUP; open cluster
NGC 2579; PUP; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 3680; CEN; open cluster
NGC 5128; CEN; galaxy
NGC 5986; LUP; globular cluster
NGC 6093; SCO; globular cluster
NGC 6124; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6169; NOR; open cluster
NGC 6178; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6231; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6242; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6250; ARA; open cluster
NGC 6281; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6322; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6383; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6388; SCO; globular cluster
NGC 6416; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6425; SCO; open cluster
NGC 6441; SCO; globular cluster
NGC 6520; SGR; open cluster
NGC 6523; SGR; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 6530; SGR; open cluster
NGC 6541; CRA; globular cluster
NGC 6595; SGR; open cluster
NGC 6604; SER; open cluster
NGC 6605; SER; open cluster
NGC 6633; OPH; open cluster
NGC 6664; SCT; open cluster
NGC 6709; AQL; open cluster
NGC 6716; SGR; open cluster
NGC 6723; SGR; globular cluster
NGC 6755; AQL; open cluster
NGC 6811; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6819; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6823; VUL; open cluster
NGC 6830; VUL; open cluster
NGC 6834; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6866; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6871; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6910; CYG; open cluster
NGC 6939; CEP; open cluster
NGC 6940; VUL; open cluster
NGC 7000; Cyg; dif.nebula
NGC 7023; CEP; open cluster+dif.nebula
NGC 7039; CYG; open cluster
NGC 7063; CYG; open cluster
NGC 7082; CYG; open cluster
NGC 7160; CEP; open cluster
NGC 7209; LAC; open cluster
NGC 7235; CEP; open cluster
NGC 7243; LAC; open cluster
NGC 7293; AQR; plan.nebula
NGC 7380; CEP; open cluster
NGC 7510; CEP; open cluster
NGC 7686; AND; open cluster
NGC 7789; CAS; open cluster
Pismis  4; VEL; open cluster
Ru  44; PUP; open cluster
Ru  55; PUP; open cluster
Sh 2-264; Ori; dif.nebula
Sh 2-276; Ori; dif.nebula
Steph 1; LYR; open cluster
Stock  1; VUL; open cluster
Stock  2; CAS; open cluster
Stock  5; CAS; open cluster
Tr 02; PER; open cluster
Tr 03; CAS; open cluster
Tr 07; PUP; open cluster
Tr 10; VEL; open cluster
Tr 27; SCO; open cluster
Tr 28; SCO; open cluster
Tr 29; SCO; open cluster
Tr 33; SGR; open cluster
Tr 37; CEP; open cluster

http://www.visualdeepsky.org/chat/msg01690.html

Dave Mitsky

 Dave - I don't want to hyjack the thread but in Stephen O'Meara's book "The messier Objects" he mentions that he was able to see stars of 8.2 with the unaided eye while doing his research in HI on Mauna Kea (at 9,000'). He mentions that others with him have made similar (8th-9th) sightings in the world's best observing sites. So I'm assuming that for extended objects in the same seeing conditions, could it be possible to  include M101, even with its very low surface brightness, as a naked eye object under the best of conditions?  Mr Q

As I said there is a a world of difference between seeing a stellar point source and an extended deep-sky object of the same magnitude.  I have never before seen anybody, including some of the best observers in the world, claim to having seen M101 naked-eye so, in my opinion, it is not possible,

Dave Mitsky

In your opinion? Glad to hear you're the final arbiter. Used to consider your posts interesting and unbiased, not anymore.

And that, of course, is your opinion.  Show me a verifying report of a visual naked-eye sighting of M51 and M101 by anybody else in the world and I might reconsider.

Dave Mitsky 

Perhaps it is the familiarity of the objects locations along with a knowledge of its actual appearance and a little averted imagination which allows someone to believe they have seen something others cannot. No one is certain of all the little tricks the human brain is capable of doing for a person.  
Nonetheless! It seems this discussion has reached an impasse.  Although physics and human physiology will tell us one thing, we cannot see through another persons eyes or into their minds. Therefore, I believe it is time to let this discussion rest and sink into the abyss with the many other lost and forgotten threads. Otherwise I can see this taking a direction that it should not take. I would really hate to see that happen. 

Have A Nice __________

 Yes, I would agree. It'll be some time now till I have long enough nights to even attempt any really dim objects.

Then I'll have to make a point of putting all the details in my notes. Seeing something like that isn't something anyone ever attempts. The first thought that flashed through my mind the first time I noticed it was "huh, what is this comet I haven't heard about".

I'll have to try and have an observing friend over this fall and find out if she can notice it. She has amazing vision and describes detail I just barely detect. 

 Dave - Perhaps I should have thought about my post question a bit longer. Although I have seen it mentioned in a few books that such faint objects could be seen with the unaided eye, I always doubted their claims. And even if it is possible to see M101, M33, etc with the unaided eye, most of us would probably not be able to observe from such very dark sky sites in the first place.

    So is seeing such objects possible with the unaided eye? I doubt it but I keep an open mind. Heck, I'm having trouble observing these two objects with 10x70 binos in fairly dark skies a mile+ above sea level!

     And yes, I believe this thread has come to an impass also but with all my extra pennies in my pocket, I had to put in my 2 cents to lighten my load. Mr Q
 

Well I must say this has been an interesting debate. In response to the very origional questio, Yes and 8 inch dob will be able to see M101 and by what you describe you more than likely did.

Regarding the naked eye M101 and M51 sightings I'm a bit skeptical, but who knows? I know that I've never heard anyone make this claim before. I'm trying to figure out where this person lives that he has a sky that dark. I know someone who yearly travels to Namibia to observe. He also almost monthly drives from here in British Columbia to the mountains of California with his 20" dob. I'll have to ask him if he's ever tried.

Getting to a reasonably dark sight doesn't have to be as difficult as many people think. It just might take a little effort. I also find these days it becomes easier and easier to have the chance to look through a large scope. Just about anyone with a few extra buck seems to have a 16-20" + scope, evenif they don't know what to do with it. For just double of what I paid for my little 6" dob not all that many years ago you can now buy a 16" Lightbridge. They seem to be almost an entry level scope now. Go to any decent star party these days and there will be at least one big dob if not several.

A couple of weeks ago I was at a new site that I found, about a 45 mintue drive from my home. The sky is pretty good there with the SQM reading at midnight being 21.89, which roughly equates to a NELM of 6.99. This is a rough sketch that I did at the eyepiece of my 12.5" dob. I did it so I could later identify the H-II  regions that I was noticing within the galaxy. http://rascvic.zenfolio.com/p566114947/?photo=h2B8B276C#730539884

Bill

Interesting thread at least once. For John, could you perhaps even little enlighten us with the observing site and details for the observation, when you saw M51 and M101 naked eye? Altitude, humidity etc. Give us something :)

I personally haven't tried M101 (and certainly not M51) without optical aid. M81 wasn't considerably difficult the last time, but both Centaurus A and M83 where invisible at the same time. The limiting magnitude was ~7.6 at an altitude of 7800ft.

/Jake
 

 Since there were at first a couple outright condemnations rather than questions about how, when, where, etc, when I do get long enough nights again to go any decent observing I certainly won't be posting any observing reports here.

The first time I saw 101 NE was quite by accident, after all no one would ever bothers to try and see these objects with the naked eye. I had been in the observatory several hours wandering about UMa, I just happen to be one who spends the night observing only a tiny portion of the sky. I happened to be standing back gazing at the sky thinking about another galaxy and looked to where 101 is while reaching for the scope to swing it to the location when I saw it and couldn't quite believe it.

Conditions: temp ~20°F, RH <15%, 0 wind,  and the jet stream was absent. Elevation 5960'. Seeing Pickering 9/ Bortle scale ~1.

Good nights here are usually about 8/2 unless the jet stream is overhead, then atmospheric turbulence  makes everything go to hell.

Since I just happen to be fortunate enough to live in a valley with no lights and also rare aircraft contrails and few clouds, there is seldom atmospheric pollution till smoke from California fires comes over our mountains. My observing is for my pleasure, and my comments to others who ask why they can't see dim objects like galaxies is that for urban dwellers they must find dark sky if they want to see anything other than the vaguest smoky puffs.

johnm:

 Since there were at first a couple outright condemnations rather than questions about how, when, where, etc, when I do get long enough nights again to go any decent observing I certainly won't be posting any observing reports here.

I hope when your dark skies return, John you can reconsider this, but I understand your anger.  This science that we call a hobby is suppose to be founded in impartial observation, and healthy skepticism.  Your comment about your observations --made simply as an aside to illustrate the value of dark skies -- was met with a level of condesention that is usually reserved for trolls on these forums, not for long-time members who have demonstrated your level of expertise and honesty.  It was not treatment that reflects well on the moderation of this forum.  I, for one, look forward to your observations.  Let me know where you plan to post.

A friend of mine mentioned this unusual and unexpected visual sighting of M51 and M101, and it piqued my curiosity.

I rarely look at the Astronomy.com forums but have contributed on rare occasions (one problem I have is that the Java applet, scrolling text, etc., slow my PC to a crawl!)

But I *had* to know more about seeing M101 by naked eye! I appreciate that "johnm" has given some information about his observation, in response to Jake's request.

I confess that I had not read the forums enough to be familiar with johnm, and for some reason when I clicked on the hyperlink to his name, all I got was a page of errors in either IE or Firefox. But I did want to know more about this gentleman! So, since he's been described here by "zachsdad" as an appreciated past contributor, I looked at some of John's posts. Everything I saw is very, very convincing: we have a knowledgeable person with a huge background in amateur astronomy. John, perhaps some of the other people in the discussion thread were not, like me, aware of this, or hadn't read your posts.

For their information, here is a small digest of some of the things he has talked about:

one that mentioned a big pro mount and some astrophotography equipment he uses, which is very high end stuff;

others show he has a lot of experience with astrophotography and cameras;

one post that says "I have the same [crayford] focuser branded Antares on a C6R" (which turns out to be, after checking on the Net, a Celestron 6 inch refractor);

several posts that indicate he has sophisticated knowledge of collimation and focusing issues;

some discussions of h-alpha solar filters and observing, and his intent to buy a Coronado solar telescope;

some comments on various bandwidth solar filters that show his knowledge of the sunspot cycle, different visible chromosphere phenomena at various wavelengths, etc.;

another post in which he says "I've owned and used Vixen equipment for many years and never have been unhappy with any of it";

a post that explains that he uses Naglers: "another amazing piece of glass from uncle Al...I'm a great fan of Naglers and Panoptics, but mine are all old type 1 and 2s and at the time I bought them they were outrageously expensive";

one post that suggests possibly that he has a Losmandy mount ("I'm thinking about that same auto guider, but on a Losmandy drive unit and I still need to find out a few things about it.");

one post about raw image formats that is VERY specific and indicates he has a LOT of knowledge about those things;

AND a hint as to where he is.

The last item I mention is interesting. In a thread about Caspar, Wyoming, he says:

"I'm out in Fremont county."

http://cs.astronomy.com/asycs/forums/thread/376315.aspx

So, here is the general area where he lives, on the Wikipedia website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_County,_Wyoming

He's indicated in the M51/101 thread that his skies are pristine-dark, with NELM in the 7's. We know his altitude, where he's located, and his age and level of expertise. John seems to be VERY authoritative, direct, and candid. I'm tending now to accept his observations by naked eye, and feel pretty reasonably satisfied about them. (But, I had to do some detective work to get to this point.)

John, I understand your sense of affront. But some amateur astronomers have a slightly different attitude about anomalous claims. Yes: there has *not* been a prior published M101 naked eye sighting, and as Dave has shown, the compilation of naked eye observations so far does not contain that object. This list has been accumulating for years now, and is constantly being updated by some of the data-wonk amateur astronomers, who -- contrary to your belief -- DO look for such objects with the naked eye! I personally know two who do, for I have met and talked to Brian Skiff in person at Lowell Observatory, and know very well Jake Saloranta ("Never") in Finland. Both of these fellows make it a point to try to see and identify celestial objects of this sort by naked eye. There is in fact a kind of collegial "contest" to try to get, eventually, all the Messiers by naked-eye.

I am a POOR naked eye astronomer. I have a terrible old pair of eyeglasses with a 5 year old prescription. My normal unaided vision is worse than 20-400, and I have astigmatism (which is corrected if I use even moderate power -- say, 10x per inch of aperture -- in a telescope, or if I wear my eyeglasses. But the other night I looked up at the Moon and saw TWO overlapping Moons - the prescription is now way wrong for the way my eyes have deteriorated as I approached and surpassed 60. (Luckily my detection ability, thru a scope, is still undiminished as far as I'm able to determine; and the abilities that one gathers through experience help somewhat.) So I salute you! And salute Jake and all the others who still have acute naked eye (or glasses-aided) non magnified vision.

It would depend, of course, on the standards of Mr. Skiff as to whether he will now add M51 and M101 to his compiled list. I'd suggest, John, that you DO contact him -- he's often present on the Yahoo group Amastro, and his email address available on this Lowell page:

http://www.lowell.edu/team/index.php?req=Skiff_Brian

Brian *might* require a bit more information, such as the exact location of the observation, the date, the time, your full name, etc. -- but I think he'd be *most* interested in your experience. He's certainly not the "official" keeper of this list, as far as I know, but at least he archives one on his Lowell site subdirectories.

If your observation is deemed credible when looked at with the details that people seem to require or prefer, it would greatly add to the information we have on what is POSSIBLE by means of naked-eye. As you can imagine, if nobody else has ever done this, it might be considered only a provisional observation; but I'm certain that if it is presented in a collegial fashion it would not be dismissed out of hand!

Yours sincerely,

Stephen Waldee, ROPER PIANO STUDIO
http://home.earthlink.net/~steve_waldee/index.html

Stephen,

Thank you for the kind comments. I'm definitely going to check the Amastro group, hadn't heard of that one before.

Since this observation has created such a stir, I'm going to have to make a point now to see if it's repeatable on a fairly regular basis. Probably about August when there's more than a brief period of full darkness in the wee hours of the morning. On nights when the sky is pristine it will be time to rock back in a chair and let my eyes wander over the locations of these dim subjects. And probably make some decent notes.

I'm reminded though of O'Meara's visual observations and sketches of the  spokes in the rings of Saturn, which if I recall correctly were passed off out of hand.

John,

Skepticism is hardly the same thing as condemnation.  I have heard many wild and specious claims over the years by some amateur astronomers so I tend to take any pronouncements, especially ones made in such a casual manner as yours was initially, with more than a grain of salt.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as a famous astronomer was fond of saying.

I also happen to know Brian Skiff of Lowell Observatory.  Some years ago he gave me a tour of the observatories at Anderson Mesa, Arizona.  As Stephen said there are many amateur astronomers who try to push the limits of any kind of observing, including that without optical aid, so it does seem very odd that nobody has ever successfully seen these galaxies in the past.

According to the noted comet observer and former Sky & Telescope columnist, John Bortle (yes, that Bortle), there has never before been a reliable naked-eye observation of a 7.0 magnitude comet, and most comets, of course, resemble face-on or elliptical galaxies.

So, if you can indeed repeat your observations, congratulations to you. 

Dave Mitsky

I'm hoping after this next trip to the veterans hospital to get put back together again I'll feel good enough to spend some long nights in the observatory again. Then I can start trying to find out if my eyes play tricks. there are plenty of dim objects to try a hand at even with these short nights. And only a few more days and we're over the hill