The debate whether ET is smart enough NOT to help us kinda falls on its face don't ya think?

Ambiguos to me......

Or, they're just (edited for language) ....

conversely, they could be thinking WE'RE the buttheads......

It all ends in a hopelessly, funny to me, debate.

Where's the wine....

do aliens really exist?..what do you think?...

the so-called "sightings" is it really an alien or something else or are we just hallucinating when we said that we've seen one?

what is the truth? 

I would (edited for language) in my pants if I met an alien 

It's bad enough that this thread continues to ask the same (unanswerable) question repeatedly ... please don't make it worse with potentially offensive language ...

tkerr:

Once you finally reach the most recent posts you might just find much of everything said has been said repeatedly.  In addition, you will find the same repetition in other thread discussions throughout these forums on the same subject(s). 
. 
I'm sure once you have read through the replies on this subject you will see the monotony here. You will also realize the same might just hold true with other topics of discussion that have been quite active lately..

 

Have A Nice _____________ 

Boy,you really do have a problem :)

Check out my next post

Edgar Mitchell disclosure.UFO's are very real (that they are extra terresrial,and visiting Earth etc).

The links to the interview,and NASA's responses,are on here:

http://ufos.about.com/b/2008/07/23/ufo-disclosure-from-astronaut-edgar-mitchell.htm

After giving us some previous tantalizing statements, it seems that Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has finally done it. He has told the world that UFOs are real, and that we are not alone in the universe. In a recent interview on Kerrang Radio, in the United Kingdom, he shocked the host and listeners by making a number of statements that left no doubt that what we study day after day is indeed, a real science, and not just based on the ravings of lunatics.

You can read the entire report, UFO Disclosure from Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, but here are some of the highlights:

There is other life in the universe.

We have been visited, and this has been covered up.

There is a lot of contact going on.

The Roswell Crash was a real event.

Some UFOs are of extraterrestrial sources, some are not.

Alien intent is NOT hostile.

NASA's response is quite hilarious.The guy did not know what to say.

ziggy stardust:

i agree with kratos i think there is life out there but i don't think we will ever be able to meet them if we can't reach them wherever they may be how would they reach us? its just too far isn't it?

ziggy

 

Too far? This tired old reasoning is borne from our own current limitations.There could be civilizations millions of years ahead of our own.

comos111:

tkerr:

Once you finally reach the most recent posts you might just find much of everything said has been said repeatedly.  In addition, you will find the same repetition in other thread discussions throughout these forums on the same subject(s). 
. 
I'm sure once you have read through the replies on this subject you will see the monotony here. You will also realize the same might just hold true with other topics of discussion that have been quite active lately..

 

Have A Nice _____________ 

 

Boy,you really do have a problem :)

Check out my next post

No! I don't have a problem here, Like I said, If you care to take the time and read through this discussion and the numerous others you will find a repetitiveness here.   What you posted is not news. cyperpatzer had already posted it.

I have lost count of the threads that have been started and faded away on the topics of ETIs Alien Abductions and UFOs. They all virtually say the same things over and over again. 
Just in this one very long thread there is a lot of repetition. But I guess that's what happens when a 3 year old thread keeps getting resurrected.  
 There are literally thousands of posts on these topics here at astronomy.com.  That is why myself and others have said to utilize the community search.

With that said.  
As I said yesterday in another post, As long as the participants of this thread abide by the Web Site and Forum Policies it will remain open, However, since this thread has already had a number of policy violations that required moderator intervention of one kind or another,  Any more and this thread and any further discussion on this matter will be locked.  
Be careful and be considerate to all the members and visitors who may read these discussions. If you're unclear on the policies, Ask before posting.  

Have A Nice ________

Edgar Mitchell has been well known as a woo before, during and after his experience as an astronaut.  He has long been a leader in the new age, spiritualism, mysticism, ufology, and remote healing movement.  During his Moon trip he conducted private ESP experiments with friends.  In 1973 he founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences which focuses on the paranormal.

Mitchell needs to present evidence, not hearsay regarding extraterrestrial visitations.  Even when presenting hearsay, he should at least name his sources.  Someone with a doctorate should know better.  Having been an astronaut does not make him an authority.  Science respects evidence tied to rational explanations, not the pronouncements of alleged authorities.  Courts and congressional committees also require high levels of proof, although not quite to the level of science.  Unfortunately, credulous members of the public will automatically accept many unfounded claims that simply sound cool, comforting or even scary. 

Mitchell needs to explain how and why all governments (he did use the plural) and private research facilities have conspired to keep extraterrestrial visitations a secret for over sixty years.  His claim that there is a “cabal of insiders” within the US government that has kept their findings secret from every president after Kennedy is ludicrous.  To whom do they report?  Who hires them?  How are they paid?  How has this cabal maintained itself for generations? And if Mitchell knows so much about them, he should tell us who they are. 

It is not incumbent upon NASA or anyone else to prove that UFOs are not ET spacecraft.  Negatives cannot be proven.  No one can prove that fairies, ghosts or leprechauns do not exist.  Mitchell and the ET spacecraft believers with which he has been long associated need to present solid evidence, and not the kind of stuff that members of his fraternity will quickly cheer and say they knew it all along.  He says he is not afraid of government retribution, so let’s see him develop a proper argument in the manner of a grownup with academic credentials.

Oops!

  It appears that Dr. Mitchell is a major woo.  He actively promotes paranormal research, and has been a proponent for over 30 years.

  This being said, I know little of him or his ideas, and less about paranormal research.  So, I plan to read his biography from the mid 90's.

  In fairness, this man has to be very, very intelligent.  I suspect his IQ is between 145-160.  He was a navy pilot, then a research pilot and trainer, completed his aeronautics and astronautics degree at MIT, then became an astronaut and flew the highly successful Apollo 14 mission.  On his return journey he apparently had some sort of ephiphany-- a life changing experience.

   High IQ present many problems for some, paranoia being one.  Profound boredom is another.  With such abnormally high intelligence, it would not be unfounded to suspect deficeits in other areas.

  But, some of his statements would seem reasonable.  It is not unlikely that he would have contacts in intelligence and NASA!  Keep in mind NASA has strong military ties, and security classification do exist.  He refuses to name names of contacts.  This seems to be because, while he is not under any obligations to be silent, those that spoke to him are, and risk some sort of punitive action.

  He explicitly states that he quiry was confirmed by a government official in the positive.  So, he is either telling the truth, consciosuly lying, or delusional.

  I think his biography will clear this up, in short order. 

I know the thread about all the moon missions has been locked.  So, when I ask this, the moderators can scold me if they would like and NO disrespect intended on my part.  But, there's something I need cleared up. 

Apparently there are those that are under the impression we did not go to the moon.  All the film footage was masterfully done on a sound stage in Hollywood.  Human space flight didn't happen to the extent we were tricked into thinking it did.  It's all bunk, I know. 

So, how can many of those who believe in intelligent ET's base a lot of their arguements on what these astronauts say they experienced?  Apparently, their missions were flown in a movie studio in Hollywood, CA.  Come to think of it, this all took place just a few years before the Star Wars movies came to theaters.  Maybe George Lucas was already testing out some of the props he was going to use while shooting the movies and the astronauts DID experience a sighting.

Point is, you can't base an opinion or belief on something by using info from a source that's not believed in itself.  Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but it seems there's those that don't think the moon has ever been visited by mankind and human spaceflight was a myth, but turn around and say they're right about the existence of UFO's because the astronauts saw UFO's.

  I have an inherint respect for someone with a PhD from MIT, and an Apollo astronout to boot.  To criticize this very well educated and intelligent person without inquiring into his perspective and story, where available,would be wrong.

  I can only image, that as one of a very small handful of peole who have been in space (particularly by 1971) that the experience would make a profound impact.  Other astronauts have said the same.

  Your views on UFOs, the moon landings, and the myth of spaceflight are very interesting.

cyberpatzer:

Your views on UFOs, the moon landings, and the myth of spaceflight are very interesting.

My views...(1)  UFO's.  Not saying they exist.  Not saying they don't.  I need hard evidence.

                 (2)  Moon landings.  I believe humans walked on the Moon.

                 (3)  Manned space flight.  They did that also, of course.

  hey!!

  I agree with 2 out of three!!!

   What do you consider 'hard evidence'?  'Soft evidence'?  'Statistical evidence'? 

  Do you need alien corpses delivered to your doorsteps?  or Would 1,000+  multiple witness testimonies from vetted credible witnesses, along with physical traces insome cases, describing utterly fantastic phenomena, do? (interviewed by credible interviewers).

  If a radar operator at a major airport, 1 pilot, and 3 people on the ground, ex communicado---- (out of communication)--and vetted for credibility (not attention seeking, mentally ill, below average IQ, intoxicated or on psychoactive medications (drugs), and holding responsible positions (engineer, police officer, professor/teacher, city official, Elks club grand PoohBa) with existing work records, provided complimentary testimonies concerning a phenomena (size, velocity and movements, sound, colors, vector...), what do you think the statistical chances are that the object was imaginary?--that these people had a spontaneous hallucination of the same phenomena?

  (Hint:  The number is high!).

  This scenario, of course, has happened many times in its general outline.--this is a fact.

  What kind of evidence is this, in your opinion?  What does it indicate?

  Also, have you read any established books on the topic?  If so, what?  If not, how was your current view formulated?  Who or what has influenced you?

cyberpatzer:

Do you need alien corpses delivered to your doorsteps?

THAT would be nice.

cyberpatzer:

multiple witness testimonies from vetted credible witnesses, along with physical traces insome cases, describing utterly fantastic phenomena,

Traces that were made from exactly what?  Not saying they all didn't see some traces of something, but what?

cyberpatzer:

If a radar operator at a major airport, 1 pilot, and 3 people on the ground, ex communicado---- (out of communication)--and vetted for credibility (not attention seeking, mentally ill, below average IQ, intoxicated or on psychoactive medications (drugs), and holding responsible positions (engineer, police officer, professor/teacher, city official, Elks club grand PoohBa) with existing work records, provided complimentary testimonies concerning a phenomena (size, velocity and movements, sound, colors, vector...),

They all witnessed a phenomena.  Everybody witnesses "phenomena" simultaneously everday.  Just because you witness a phenomena, no matter how many at one time, it's still just that...a phenomena.  Doesn't mean it's a UFO and nothing else.

cyberpatzer:

Also, have you read any established books on the topic?  If so, what?  If not, how was your current view formulated?  Who or what has influenced you?

Haven't for quite a few years.  I don't need to.  I want to believe, I really do.  I think it would be one of the greatest things if these ET's actually exist.  It sure would shake up the collective psyche of mankind.  I have no problem with the idea that ET's might exist.  I just need more to go on than witness accounts, crop circles made by something, conjecture that the great pyramids were built by these ET's, etc.  Heck, I've seen weird lights in the sky and things I have to stop and think about for a moment.  Did I see a UFO?  Yes...unidentified flying object.  Did I see ET?  Possibly.  Have others seen what I saw?  Yes.  But, I or we can't extrapolate that into the supposed fact that ET just flew by on his way to the cosmic grocery store for some eggs and milk.  Now, if he would stop back by on his way home and hand me a bottle of space soda, THAT would make me a believer.

It is unfortunate that my post concerning those who are skeptical that the moon missions ever happened but use the astronauts who flew these missions as unmistakeable proof of the existence of UFO's posted right after your post.  I can see where one could assume I had you in mind when I wrote that.  I DID NOT and that was not my intention at all. 

o.k..

  I understand.

   I will mention that the US air force/intelligence community concluded that the ETH (extraterrestrial hypothesis) was the likely source of phenomena similar to what I used as an example.  This is documented, and occured around 1952-1953.  Shorly after that, a policy shift towards non-disclosure came into place, and has not budged ever since.

  They came to this conclusion by a minute analysis and logical inference of the above types of scenarios.

    You don't have to 'believe', you can simply be aware of the existing materials.  Soon, 'belief' becomes an inappropriate word.  For example, I 'think' that the accumulted material strongly suggests the ETH as a probable cause of existing unknowns not otherwise explained (2%-15%, depending on the case pool.).  Or, having read the material, I could 'think' that the accumulated evidence, though puzzling, is inconclusive (a reserved and scientific answer, similar to what Sturrocks panel concluded).

  P.S.:  Some physical evicence case examples: 

-- a ufo landing witnessed by multiple beople, and multiple, geometric indentations in the ground, in addition to higher than background radiation readings.  

  --an observed landing, and scorched vegetation, and evidence of compaction in the soil as produced by an object weighing multiple tons. 

--an close flyby (CE2), with the witness evidencing facial/body burns consistent with radiation exposure.

   There are many more, with  marks on the ground being the most prominent.

  (Yes, I know deer can leave marks on the ground, and it doesn't mean they are UFOs!  But deer can't take off vertically at speed approaching 10,000mph and disappear through the cloud deck, despite several inebriated hunters protesting otherwise!!!)

Again, I have NO problem with the idea of the existence of ETL and UFO's.  I DO believe those people have definitely seen and experienced something that needs follow-up.  And, if this sighting and/or experience has left little doubt in THIER minds that ET is out there, great.  They may, in fact, have seen ET.  I'm just saying that for ME to be positively certain that ETL and UFO's are out there, I personally would have to see it.  Same thing with Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Abominable Snowman, modern day pterodactyls, rods, etc.  Sorry, that's just me.

cyberpatzer:

(Yes, I know deer can leave marks on the ground, and it doesn't mean they are UFOs!  But deer can't take off vertically at speed approaching 10,000mph and disappear through the cloud deck, despite several inebriated hunters protesting otherwise!!!)

That would be more entertaing and jaw-dropping than seeing a UFO.  I'd pay to see that!