great night

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  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
great night
Posted by stepping beyond on Monday, November 04, 2013 9:35 AM

Clear and distinctive spiral arms, dust lanes and utter "AWESOMENESS" the best I've seen m31 and m33. I also took a gander at Perseus's double cluster on my way to the "HEART and SOUL" nebulae below cass. stunning through the Z10.

Tags: AWESOMENESS
  • Member since
    November, 2009
Posted by Poppa Chris on Monday, November 04, 2013 10:49 AM

Glad you had so much fun!

Weather and seeing conditions must have been "spot on".

What eyepieces were you using and what is the F.L & f/ratio of your Z10?

It would be good to know what your setup for such a great view was.

 

---Poppa Chris---

Denham Springs, Louisiana USA

"Second star to the right - Then straight on until morning!" - Peter Pan

Celestron CPC1100GPS (XLT) - 279mm aperature, 2800mm Focal length. (f10) Celestron Ultima LX (70deg AFOV) Eyepieces 32mm thru 5mm, Canon EOS Rebel T2i DSLR, Backyard EOS imaging software, Orion Star Shoot Planetary Imager IV, Celestron Skymaster 15x70 binoculars

 

  • Member since
    May, 2012
Posted by Starrancher on Monday, November 04, 2013 12:59 PM

Isn't M33 wonderful ? Could you count five spiral arms ? About 50x or 60x seem to be about the best magnification for viewing the galaxy as a whole ? First time I saw it I was floored . 

M31 looking best at about 30x ?  Thats what I find optimum . Lots of stuff in that low power view . 

Have you seen the "Helix" yet ? About 50x or 60x on that is what I find best though opinions do vary . 

Wink

The invisible man 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
Posted by Poppa Chris on Monday, November 04, 2013 1:38 PM

M31 is always tough in my scope.  At 2800mm focal length my widest EP (32mm with 70` FOV) I can only get down to 88X.  Using  0.63 focal reducer gives me 1764mm or 55X.  Imaging it would require building a mosaic of several overlapping images.

I could try piggy-backing my DSLR.  But still a great visual view of the whole shebang is out of the question. 

---Poppa Chris---

Denham Springs, Louisiana USA

"Second star to the right - Then straight on until morning!" - Peter Pan

Celestron CPC1100GPS (XLT) - 279mm aperature, 2800mm Focal length. (f10) Celestron Ultima LX (70deg AFOV) Eyepieces 32mm thru 5mm, Canon EOS Rebel T2i DSLR, Backyard EOS imaging software, Orion Star Shoot Planetary Imager IV, Celestron Skymaster 15x70 binoculars

 

  • Member since
    October, 2005
Posted by leo731 on Monday, November 04, 2013 2:04 PM

Glad you had such great views.

I too am always glad to see M31 but visually all I can see is the core usually.  Too much LP around and my largest scope is only 8".  

Hope you have more clear skies to wander,

L

A nebula in the eyepiece is worth two in the Atlas.

  • Member since
    May, 2012
Posted by Starrancher on Monday, November 04, 2013 3:53 PM

Indeed Chris the SCT hardly a wide field scope for the large objects . I remember goin to Star Parties where I was expecting to see a much improved M31 through the guys on either side of my SN8 who had 10 and 12 inch Dobs , only to find a view where you had to pan back and forth to take in the whole galaxy . That was a little disappointing to me as I guess I was already spoiled with what the f4 8 inch could do . Being able to grab a full 2 degree FOV with a 1.25" Plossl is pretty darn cool ! 

Agreed Leo , under the suburban LP about all one is going to get is the core . While I was still in the suburbs , spending time and money going to dark sky locations and club facilities at such , I threw in the towel when it came to backyard DSOs . I relinquished backyard observing to Lunar and Planetary only as I was so spoiled by the dark sky DSOs . Once you see the grandure of this stuff from a dark sky , it's hard to go back to a smudge of light . But 8 inches is plenty of aperture to keep one wowed for years under a good dark sky . 

Ive read the filter threads that circulate and have heard it said that the best Astro filter that a suburban astronomer can buy is a tank of gas . Truer words have never been spoken . Nothin' wrong with an 8 inch scope for sure . 

Even my 5 inch Achromat is amazing under the dark sky . 

Ive easy access to Bortle one or two skies now (grey/black) , but back when  I used the gas filter , green/blue areas just spoiled me rotten . 

The invisible man 

  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Monday, November 04, 2013 4:49 PM

I was using my 2 IN. TeleVue Paracorr T2, 2 IN. 30MM SWA , 1 1/4 in. 20mm, 16mm and 9mm Z100 w/ 16mm ER on a  F/4.7 1250 FL scope, here's the magnification of ea. Paracorr 1.15x when used added to ep mag. The 30mm SWA 41.6 x ,16mm 78x and 9mm 138x,Olll , UHC and urban sky filters were used on ea. separately . Olll did better on m31, UHC did remarkable on m33 and Urban sky was used only on m34 with the2 in. 30mm SWA gave the largest fov with the 20mm and Paracorr giving a nice view of m34 . The 16 and 9mm w/ paracorr defined dark lanes and spiral arms in m33 and dark lane in m31 with a hint of spiral arms . Let's see what the "Gods" will do for me tonight SB

  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Monday, November 04, 2013 4:56 PM

Starrancher m33 is awesome,2in. 30mm SWA w/ UHC count 5 arms. The sky was almost black and I've only seen skies that dark out at the outer banks and the milky way was very distinctive . Gotta love this sm. town 30 miles from the closest metroplolis, some nights the light dome is a pain but, I just wait for my targets to clear the dome a degree or so. Then" it's on like a pot of neckbones."

  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Monday, November 04, 2013 5:01 PM

My friend  my  fl  is 1250mm . I haven't viewed the helix this year yet but, it's in the log and I'll try finding it w/o stellarium this time. I.ve got great views of the E to the NE and S TO SW , SE and NW are pretty compromised except on both ends of my house.

  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:01 AM

Leo my friend, If the drive to dark skies has you on hold a good Olll and UHC filter will help you. The savings you'll save from having to fill the tank will provide funds for this purchase ,I've got Zhumell filters and they're surprisingly good to this skeptic. There are some AA that don't think they're worth the time or money but, that's an  opinion. A lot of factors go with using LPR's , I took black construction paper and lined the inside of my OTA " po disabled man's idea of flocking". I just couldn't get anyone to help me to properly flock my Z10, so the result was vast improvement in contrast and stray light reflection. My views of these galaxies, proves that a dark black OTA works wonders along with atmosphere, LPR and waiting for targets to rise high above the horizon. Being closed in by woods and my house , plus lg. oak trees that block the majority of stay light coming from the street, observing from the side or front would be disappointing for DSO observations. I got my filters due to the fact that my neighbor had a streetlight on a telephone pole, it's no longer there and I thought " I got them why not use them" I don't let any gear collect dust.

Tags: LPR filters
  • Member since
    October, 2005
Posted by leo731 on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 4:34 PM

Yes, my instruments have been gathering dust while I have been recovering.  This may change for a bit tonight if I luck out.  It is nice to have DST over and done with for awhile. 

My 8" scope is a 4.5 fl Cave Reflector.  It works wonderfully but it is heavy so I do not use it much.  I have a much newer Celestron 6" SCT which is far lighter and has seen much more work, and my newest scope is a Vixen 4.33" Cass that I can lift easily. 

I used to get out to dark skies more often and miss them but again I am limited at the moment.  At home I use a lumicon LP filter and have an Orion one as well.  I love your comment about a tank of gas being the best "filter" Starrancher!   Actually the filters work well allowing me to observe the Messier nebulae rather well.  With one exception, the Crab (MI), he tasks me. 

That was a neat, and cost saving idea to flock the inside of your scope SB.  Fortunately my Cave was properly flocked black when I bought it decades ago.  Don't build them like that anymore! 

Cheers to all!

L

A nebula in the eyepiece is worth two in the Atlas.

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  • Member since
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  • From: PA, USA, Earth Moderator
Posted by DaveMitsky on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 1:33 AM

stepping beyond

I was using my 2 IN. TeleVue Paracorr T2, 2 IN. 30MM SWA , 1 1/4 in. 20mm, 16mm and 9mm Z100 w/ 16mm ER on a  F/4.7 1250 FL scope, here's the magnification of ea. Paracorr 1.15x when used added to ep mag. The 30mm SWA 41.6 x ,16mm 78x and 9mm 138x,Olll , UHC and urban sky filters were used on ea. separately . Olll did better on m31, UHC did remarkable on m33 and Urban sky was used only on m34 with the2 in. 30mm SWA gave the largest fov with the 20mm and Paracorr giving a nice view of m34 . The 16 and 9mm w/ paracorr defined dark lanes and spiral arms in m33 and dark lane in m31 with a hint of spiral arms . Let's see what the "Gods" will do for me tonight SB

 

A narrowband nebula filter (e.g., a Lumicon UHC, an Orion UltraBlock, or a DGM Optics NPB Nebula Filter) or an OIII line filter is not recommended for observing objects other than nebulae because such objects emit light over a broad spectrum, not just at specific wavelengths, and much of that light will be attenuated by such filters. The only galaxies that I use a narrowband or OIII filter on are ones with nebulous HII regions such as M33, M101, and NGC 6822.  The filter will dim the galaxy proper considerably but will accentuate its HII regions.  A broadband LPR (Light Pollution Reduction) filter is much less restrictive and may somewhat improve the views of a few galaxies from light-polluted locales.

http://www.astronexus.com/node/4

http://www.knoxvilleobservers.org/dsonline/tips/lprfilters.html

http://www.lumicon.com/store/pg/15-LUMICON-Nebula-Filters.aspx

http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/resources/by-dave-knisely/some-available-light-pollution-and-narrow-band-filters/

Dave Mitsky

Sic itur ad astra!

Chance favors the prepared mind.

A man is a small thing, and the night is very large and full of wonders.

  • Member since
    May, 2012
Posted by Starrancher on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 1:47 PM

I typically don't use filters at all when it comes to Galaxies . Even with the Broadband , I find it tough to say that it improves the view when in most cases it just causes a dimming effect . 

Under truly dark skies , I even find myself preferring an unfiltered view of most Nebulea .Now understanding that the filters still can and do enhance certain details and regions within the object and not particularly doing a visual study of these , as an overall view , the retention of brightness in the image wins for me more often than not . Emphasis again on this being under truly dark sky conditions . My Narrowband as well as OIII filters still being highly valued pieces of equipment and comparing filtered vs unfiltered views is a big part of the experience for me . 

Fun fun fun until her daddy takes the "T" Bird away . 

The invisible man 

  • Member since
    October, 2005
Posted by leo731 on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 3:09 PM

I agree.  Right now The Lagoon Nebula is falling away rapidly into the west.  When using my narrowband filter the nebula is very nice but the open cluster of stars is hidden.  Without a filter the cluster is brilliant but the nebulosity is whispy and only marginally visable with averted vision.  Nothing is ever perfect but there is no substitute for dark skies.  For now I will try to see what I can when I can where I can. Smile, Wink & Grin

L

A nebula in the eyepiece is worth two in the Atlas.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
Posted by Poppa Chris on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 3:22 PM

I've had resaonable success using a broadband filter rather than a narrowband in my relatively heavy light pollution while doing low-power wide-field observation.  While I know it isn't perfect, doesn't block all of the LP, dims the overall view, etc.  It does give that added little bit of contrast that in a lot of cases makes for a more pleasing view.  It is a compromise. Not great, but better than using nothing.  I also agree that on a lot of galaxies, like the Leo Trio, that no filter but higher magnification works better giving me a darker background and more contrast.  Another example of the old adage "fit the tool to the task".

---Poppa Chris---

Denham Springs, Louisiana USA

"Second star to the right - Then straight on until morning!" - Peter Pan

Celestron CPC1100GPS (XLT) - 279mm aperature, 2800mm Focal length. (f10) Celestron Ultima LX (70deg AFOV) Eyepieces 32mm thru 5mm, Canon EOS Rebel T2i DSLR, Backyard EOS imaging software, Orion Star Shoot Planetary Imager IV, Celestron Skymaster 15x70 binoculars

 

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  • Member since
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  • From: PA, USA, Earth Moderator
Posted by DaveMitsky on Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:01 PM

There's no denying the usefulness of narrowband and line filters for the observation of emission and planetary nebulae and supernova remnants.  In some cases, nebulae that are invisible without a filter can be seen.  In others, marginal objects can be enhanced markedly.  

Well-known DSOs like NGC 7000 (The North America Nebula), the Veil Nebula complex, NGC 2359 (Thor's Helmet), and NGC 7293 (the Helix Nebula) are all vastly improved with the use of a narrowband or OIII filter.  

Many tiny planetary nebulae may not detectable unless they are first "blinked" with a nebula filter.

Browse http://www.astronomy-mall.com/Adventures.In.Deep.Space/barnard.htm for a discussion of observing the Hubble HII regions in NGC 6822.

Some years ago the noted amateur astronomer David Knisely conducted a systematic evaluation of the various type of filters on a large number of objects.  It can be found at http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org/resources/by-dave-knisely/filter-performance-comparisons-for-some-common-nebulae/

While I've successfully observed B33 (the Horsehead Nebula) without an H-beta line filter on a few occasions when the conditions at some excellent dark sites were truly exceptional and large apertures (14.5 to 20 inches) were employed, the addition of an H-beta filter can make logging the Horsehead relatively "easy".  An H-beta filter also makes NGC 1499 (the California Nebula) a worthwhile target, especially with a rich-field telescope like my Tele Vue TV-101 apochromatic refractor. 

Here's David Knisely's list of observable H-beta emitting nebulae, many of which are otherwise invisible without an H-beta filter:

1.  IC 434 (HORSEHEAD NEBULA)

2.  NGC 1499 (CALIFORNIA NEBULA, naked eye and RFT)

3.  M43 (part of the Great Orion Nebula)

4.  IC 5146 (COCOON NEBULA in Cygnus)

5.  M20 (TRIFID NEBULA, main section)

6.  NGC 2327 (diffuse nebula in Monoceros)

7.  IC 405 (the FLAMING STAR NEBULA in Auriga)

8.  IC 417 (diffuse Nebula in Auriga)

9.  IC 1283 (diffuse Nebula in Sagittarius)

10. IC 1318 GAMMA CYGNI NEBULA (diffuse nebula in Cygnus)

11. IC 2177: (Diffuse Nebula, Monoceros)

12. IC 5076 (diffuse nebula, Cygnus)

13. PK64+5.1 "CAMPBELL'S HYDROGEN STAR" Cygnus (PNG 64.7+5.0)

14. Sh2-157a (small round nebula inside larger Sh2-157, Cassiopeia)

15. Sh2-235 (diffuse nebula in Auriga).

16. Sh2-276 "BARNARD'S LOOP" (diffuse nebula in Orion, naked eye)

17. IC 2162 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion)

18  Sh2-254 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)

19. Sh2-256-7 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)

20. vdB93 (Gum-1) (diffuse nebula in Monoceros near IC 2177)

21. Lambda Orionis nebular complex (very large, naked-eye)   

22. The "Cone" Nebula (portion of Sh2-273 south of cluster NGC 2264)

The GCE filter, which supposedly enhanced galaxies, was marketed some time ago.

http://uncle-rods.blogspot.com/2006/09/heavens-to-murgatroid-galaxy-filter.html

Dave Mitsky

Sic itur ad astra!

Chance favors the prepared mind.

A man is a small thing, and the night is very large and full of wonders.

  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Saturday, November 09, 2013 5:21 PM
Thanks you for your insight and list. I use filters to locate.
  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Saturday, November 09, 2013 5:23 PM
Thanks Chris I use my filters to locate targets
  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Saturday, November 09, 2013 5:29 PM
I use filters to locate only not while examining or observing
  • Member since
    April, 2012
  • From: North Carolina east coast USA
Posted by stepping beyond on Saturday, November 09, 2013 5:32 PM

I've done my own research and testing to find what would give the best possible view of all my targets.

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