Orion 16 or 20" Dob,?????

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Orion 16 or 20" Dob,?????
Posted by armchairal on Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:13 AM
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Posted by tkerr on Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:30 AM

I think they just re-designed the base.   One of the major complaints they have been getting is their Dob Base compared to others.

For some reason I can't see them breaking into the competition with a new larger dob than what they already have.  It would have to be a truss tube. And looking at the portion of the teaser add, I don't see any kind of rocker box..

I guess we will have to wait and see. It should be in the next catalog.. 

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Posted by armchairal on Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:12 AM

You may be correct Tim,,,, but I can still hope 16"er for $1.600 on the 16th, of August.Big Smile

Al

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Posted by johnm on Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:34 AM

 I could see Orion offering a 16 inch. There are several 16s available now in the not quite "mass" market category, but not in the "premium" range. Asian makers seem to have 16 inch mirrors down pat now.

They'd have to get into the 18 or 20 inch range before I'd start getting real interested. There's also some rumor floating around about some upgrades to the EQ6 Atlas mount. 

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Posted by WannaB on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:34 PM

tkerr
I guess we will have to wait and see. It should be in the next catalog.. 

Got my new Orion catalog yesterday.  Didn't see anything in it about what we're talking about here.  Didn't have the time to really get down and dirty into it.  Just thumbed through the catalog.  I'll have to get more serious tonight.

Oh, BTW,  what do you all think abou that new mak-newt astrograph Orion now has?  What's an astrograph anyway?  I assume "astro" being the objects in the sky and the "graph" meaning something to do with photography.  Pretty smart, huh?  Especially since the product was in the AP section of the catalog and it's description was all about the great images it will produce.

 

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Posted by tkerr on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:49 PM

WannaB

tkerr
I guess we will have to wait and see. It should be in the next catalog.. 

Got my new Orion catalog yesterday.  Didn't see anything in it about what we're talking about here.  Didn't have the time to really get down and dirty into it.  Just thumbed through the catalog.  I'll have to get more serious tonight.

Oh, BTW,  what do you all think abou that new mak-newt astrograph Orion now has?  What's an astrograph anyway?  I assume "astro" being the objects in the sky and the "graph" meaning something to do with photography.  Pretty smart, huh?  Especially since the product was in the AP section of the catalog and it's description was all about the great images it will produce.

 

Yeah, Got mine yesterday too.  I saw a couple new items but nothing like what anyone was thinking.  But that doesn't really say anything yet.  The catalogs were probably already printed and mailed prior to the teaser email.

I was checking out that MakNewt astrograph.  Nice but a little pricy I think.. 
I was taking a close look at the new Barlows also.  Those look like they could be pretty nice, especially the 2" 3xBarlow. 


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Posted by leo731 on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 4:50 PM

WannaB
What's an astrograph anyway?

You hit it right on the head.  An astrograph is just a fancy way to say that a telescope is adjusted for photographic use over visual use.  The focuser is usually set in the light path so that it maximizes the light to fall on a collector without having to use a long drawtube to adjust from the visual focus.  In Newtonian Astrographs the tube is longer so that the secondary mirror is farther inside and acts like a light shield.  There are other points as well but that is the general idea.

As to what Orion is up to I haven't the faintest clue.  I have been getting their teaser ads in my e-mail and it looks like maybe they have an improved dobsonian base that would allow them to get into the 16" range.

I am sure the Marketing Department is overjoyed that this thread has appeared here and elsewhere in the Astronomy community!  Nothing like teaser ads to get the target audience all abuzz.

An interested bee too,

L

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Posted by tkerr on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:19 PM

leo731

WannaB
What's an astrograph anyway?

You hit it right on the head.  An astrograph is just a fancy way to say that a telescope is adjusted for photographic use over visual use.  The focuser is usually set in the light path so that it maximizes the light to fall on a collector without having to use a long drawtube to adjust from the visual focus.  In Newtonian Astrographs the tube is longer so that the secondary mirror is farther inside and acts like a light shield.  There are other points as well but that is the general idea.

Sorry I didn't answer that.  Like already indicated the astrograph is a telescope optimized for astrophotography rather than visual use.  The more noticeable differences are a low profile focuser. Usually a multi-speed Crayford style focuser for finer more precise focusing.
The focal length is generally shorter than a Newtonian of equal aperture for visual use. And the secondary mirror size and positioning inside the tube are also different. The secondary mirror is a little larger optimizing light to the focal plane and sensor chip, and is also set back in the tube further to shield against ambient light reflections better.
You can still use one for visual use, but because the larger secondary mirror obstruction image contrast through an eyepiece would be pretty poor.


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Posted by WannaB on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:45 PM

Thanks guys!!!  That clears it up. 

I'm more or less new to all of this, but I was thinking it was a little over-priced myself,  But, like I said, what do I know.  You would still have to buy a mount.  The better one runs more than the scope!!  You're looking in the neighborhood of $3000 and haven't even talked about the actual AP equipment yet.  I'll wait for my ship to come in before I take off on the AP road.

Yea, the barlows did look interesting.  I wish they would lower the price of the Stratus EP's.  You don't get all the stuff you used to when buying a classic dob either.  Plus, they now include the object locator in with the IntelliScopes for the price you used to buy the scope w/o the OL.  Oh, the times, they are a changin'!

NOW, they  come out with a better dob base...after I bought mine.  I like my scope, but the base leaves a little to be desired.  I've modified and have plans for further modifications.  Can't complain though, beats the equipment astronomy was started with.

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Posted by WannaB on Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:58 AM

Got another e-mail from Orion.  Just a little more of the picture was revealed.  Bigger scope...smoother functioning base...both???

Good thing e-mails are free.  Well, next to free, anyway.  Orion sure is dragging this out.

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Posted by tkerr on Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:25 AM

WannaB

Got another e-mail from Orion.  Just a little more of the picture was revealed.  Bigger scope...smoother functioning base...both???

Good thing e-mails are free.  Well, next to free, anyway.  Orion sure is dragging this out.

Yeah, I saw that first thing this morning.  I'm thinking either they improved something on the existing 12" Intelliscope Dob, or there is a 14" now. 
Personally I don't know about a solid tube Newtonian over 12" being to practical, unless it is a Split tube like the Discovery PDHQ Dobs. Otherwise your starting to get in to a size and weight that unmanageable to handle for one person alone.  This is why you will see most large Dobs are Truss Tube design. 

I guess we will have to wait until they decide to quit teasing us.

 

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Posted by armchairal on Saturday, August 09, 2008 6:11 PM

Still say a 16"er,,, Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

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Posted by cgate on Saturday, August 09, 2008 11:40 PM

I read some discussion on this subject on another forum and and they showed a picture of a 12" skywatcher collapsible dob that looks like the part of the picture that Orion is showing.

It was a truss design with a longer mirror rocker box than usual. I think the Orion version may have some type of computer object locator system.

If you notice on the top part of the scope that Orion shows now, if it is to scale, the tube does not look big enough to be a 16" in relation to the focuser and finderscope. Plus, the one part of the scope their not showing is where the trusses would be.

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Posted by armchairal on Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:26 AM

If you look at the 2" ep holder hole,,, then match that to to tube it looks like the tube is at about 17". Plus the add said bigger when the top half was showing,,, but now it looks to be back to the old teaser add.

Al

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Posted by johnm on Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:34 AM

From what I've been reading here and there, even some Orion devotees think enough of this is enough and they should announce what their  latest and greatest is.

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Posted by cgate on Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:57 AM

The ad I 've seen said "jumbo" not "bigger".

I still say it looks like a 12" to me. When I look at my XT12" dob at the same angle as what Orion's ad shows it looks the same.

-Edit:  I went to the Orion page and brought up the picture of the ad. With a ruler I measured the width of the tube at about 2 1/2" and the focuser at about 5/8".  Standing about 11 feet away and looking at my dob at the same angle with a ruler extended at arms length till I get the tube to match 2 1/2" across, the focuser then measures about 5/8". The same as the ad.

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Posted by armchairal on Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:46 PM

Your right , it says Jumbo the add is back,,,,,,,, but I"m sticking with 16"er. Big Smile

Al

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Posted by johnjohnson on Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:25 PM

It was bugging me also, so I went out to my 10" Orion and measured the 2" focuser adapter (2.2") and the inside diameter of the tube (11.375") and knowing the mirror is 10" got a ratio of tube diameter to mirror size (0.879)

Using a digital caliper I measured the 2" adapter in the add (0.276") and the tube inner diameter (1.7"). Then divide 1.7" by 0.276" and multiply by 2.2" then multiply by the ratio 0.879 and the result is 11.9".

Looking closely at the add, It has the old rack and pinion focuser and what looks to be a 40mm straight through focuser. I also noticed that the focuser sits very close to the front of the tube. This would indicate that they are trying to reduce some weight and length which may also mean it is an F4.5 or faster scope. In the add the area ripped out indicates to me that it is a collapsible truss tube (they are trying to hide the fact).

JJ
 

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Posted by armchairal on Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:55 PM

I think,,, but could be wrong { JUMBO OPTICS } says more than 12"er. If it turns out to be a revamped 12"XT IntelliScope with Object Locator for $100.00 less,,,,that would be enough for me to never buy anything Orion againBig Smile

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Posted by cgate on Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:21 PM
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Posted by tkerr on Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:37 PM

cgate

Since both Skywatcher and Orion are vendors of Synta products, I wouldn't doubt it..

Anything larger than 12" aperture only makes sense to make it a split tube or truss design. Otherwise you're only asking for trouble trying to manhandle it. 



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Posted by WannaB on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:06 AM

Well, enough may be enough, but you gotta admit, Orion has done what it's set out to do.  They have a buzz started here and there's other forums out there where there's just as much and probably more "buzz" than what's here.

Hopefully whatever it is will live up to the hype!

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Posted by johnjohnson on Friday, August 15, 2008 10:00 PM

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Posted by dhopso on Friday, August 15, 2008 11:28 PM

Sharp looking scope Big Smile

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Posted by armchairal on Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:11 AM

Looks like most were right on their guess but not me.  I find it disappointing,,,, sorta like taking a dollar meal double cheeseburger  add some lettuce and call it a JUMBO WHOPPER and charge you extra.

Al

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Posted by skooter60 on Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:01 AM
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Posted by tkerr on Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:26 AM

Looks lke cgate got it right.

But I have to say that I'm kind of disappointed in Orion on this one.  They already have a 12" intelliscope and classic Dob.  They should have at least stepped it up to a 14".  The teaser sort of lead everyone to believe they were going to have a bigger telescope.

 

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Posted by johnjohnson on Saturday, August 16, 2008 6:23 PM

They did say first of it's kind. This makes me think there will be larger later.

JJ 

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Posted by WannaB on Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:16 PM

Well, when it's offered in a 15" or 16", then I'll be more interested.

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Posted by chuck81 on Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:48 AM

I wonder why the truss version has a higher weight than both of the other 12 inch dobs?

Chuck

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